Alex (01:09.339)
We're in our series called Story Matters, and we're talking about the grand narrative. And we have a treat today because we have a special guest, Lauren Johnson, who's come to share her story with us. And I've been thinking about ways to introduce you, Lauren, and every way I can think about introducing you tells part of the story that you're about to tell. So I'm gonna introduce you as I experience you, which is, it's just been so fun to know you, to be inspired by you.
Brenda (01:29.788)
I'm sorry.
Brenda (01:35.412)
Hehehe
Alex (01:39.453)
creativity which you inspire many people by your creativity and just to be with you is just joy. I don't think I have any encounter with you whether it's a text or a phone call or we're together that I'm not smiling when I'm with you and so I'm just excited for people to get to know you through this story and also for us to be able to connect these concepts of the grand narrative to a real person in real life.
Brenda (02:06.58)
Hehehehe
Lauren Duncan (02:09.262)
I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me on. It's so fun to hear your voices. I've been listening to your podcast so much. So I feel like I'm talking to these people I fold laundry with.
Alex (02:19.185)
Yeah.
Well, the other fun connection that we have is that Brenda and I wrote a Bible study before we even made the podcast and it's called Beginnings and your artwork is on the cover. You let us use that. Yup. And I meant to bring it. I wanted to hold it up and show it, but it's one of my favorite paintings you've done and it's a lot of light and bright colors and so I think of you so often when I see that on my shelf. Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (02:29.218)
with my pain eight.
Brenda (02:30.46)
Mm-hmm. Heh heh heh.
Lauren Duncan (02:32.15)
I forgot about it, yes!
Lauren Duncan (02:46.38)
Aww. Thanks.
Brenda (02:47.709)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you. Beautiful.
Lauren Duncan (02:50.955)
Absolutely.
Alex (02:51.319)
So maybe you tell us a little bit about yourself before we jump into how we're going to talk about your story today. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and start with the first one.
Lauren Duncan (03:00.598)
Okay. Yeah. So I live in Auburn, Alabama. We were just talking about this. I was born and raised here. Small town, not so small anymore. Love this place. My family has deep roots. My grandparents were raised here. So I love the town. I tried to get out of it for a while and the Lord brought me back in and I'm grateful for it now. It's a great place to be. And the Lord has just
Alex (03:09.429)
Hmm
Brenda (03:22.274)
Hehehehe
Lauren Duncan (03:30.882)
blessed my career here. I'm not doing anything I ever expected to be doing with my life, I don't think, but I'm an artist and I paint, I paint my prayers. I paint in a way that encourages other people. And I try to, you know, use my Instagram and all my social media stuff for encouraging people and encouraging people to create and create for Jesus. And I hope that I encourage people.
Alex (04:00.138)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brenda (04:00.32)
Hmm. Yeah, that's awesome.
Alex (04:03.743)
Well, we're gonna start your story in the dark point. I know because you talk a lot about light But we're gonna start at the dark place and we're gonna move towards the light as we often say when we Help people write their grand narrative We talk about them starting that an easy place to start is in our in the fall part of our story either the sin or Suffering part of our story because we all are experiencing that every day We're very familiar with the things that cause us to suffer so
When you and I met Lauren, could you kind of start the story there of what caused you to reach out for counseling and what experience of the fall, what experience of suffering were you having then?
Lauren Duncan (04:46.646)
So I was thinking about this a little bit different today. I hope that's okay. But I think the first time that I really experienced like a fall in my life is, I think I'm fine talking about this, but when my parents divorced, they divorced as soon as I left for college. And so there was obviously some brokenness before that I experienced, but that type of brokenness, that type of fall, I think I was able to fake it better.
Alex (04:50.42)
Hmm?
Alex (05:14.987)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (05:15.174)
just like pretend like I was okay even if I wasn't on the inside. I could just, you know, put on my happy face and people didn't really know I was sad or struggling. But then years later we went through, I mean the main thing was infertility when we got married, but it also was a combination of brokenness in our church. We were leaving a church. We
Alex (05:26.444)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (05:44.378)
infertility that seemed like super, super hopeless. We just to tell a little bit about that, we found out that my, our, we had a genetic issue that even IVF wouldn't work for us to have a biological child. So it just seemed very, very dark, very, very hopeless, very overwhelming. By the time I was calling Alex, I just kind of couldn't.
Alex (06:02.059)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (06:13.822)
make sense of anything anymore. And the thing that was so different about the infertility than like with my parents' divorce is that I couldn't hide it. It was a physical thing. So we talked yesterday about how I felt like during that time I was walking around with this scarlet letter and that everybody could see. I felt very exposed and...
Brenda (06:24.788)
Hmm.
Alex (06:24.977)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (06:37.717)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (06:40.734)
I couldn't just put on my happy face and pretend like I was okay, because I wasn't. And there was a physical thing that people could see to know that. And it's just, I think this is one of the questions later, but it wasn't something I could get away from. Like, even if I could pretend to be happy for a little while, you know, like even in like the best sorts of places, we were trying a new church. And
Alex (06:50.667)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (07:08.686)
I'd walk into a new Sunday school class and we'd meet new people. And what's the first thing they ask you? I mean, what's your name? And then how old are your kids? Or how many kids do you have? That's the first question. And experiencing that, I knew that the person wasn't trying to hurt my feelings. So I couldn't be mad at that person. And I couldn't be mad at God because God is good. I've learned now you can be mad at God. But at that point in time, I just really
I think I just internalized all of it and I didn't know, I don't know, I didn't know how to express my anger and frustration and just hopelessness. And coming to talk to Alex was a great thing, a great step for me to take. I think she really helped me have some vocabulary and understand the brokenness.
I think all the time, I love y'all saying about the sinner, saint and sufferer. And that really helps me to kind of separate the different parts of the story. Because there's definitely parts where I'm the sinner. I'm like, you know, wallowing in self-pity, you know, and thinking about myself. But then there's parts where I am, you know, God's child. I'm raised up. I'm in relationship with him. He is.
speaking to me through His Holy Spirit. He is speaking through me with His Holy Spirit. And then I'm suffering, physically suffering and emotionally and so I hope that answers the question.
Alex (08:44.965)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (08:45.18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you said one thing I...
I really like and that is that before you were telling your story, you felt exposed because we've been talking in the series about how telling our stories feels vulnerable and like we're being exposed. But I think it's really interesting that we can feel very exposed stuck in our story when we are having to hold it ourselves and keep it to ourselves. And I think even like when you said, and then I went to see Alex and Alex helped me sort through St. Sefer Center. And so now I have categories.
Lauren Duncan (08:53.781)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (09:05.419)
Uh.
Lauren Duncan (09:09.236)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (09:17.83)
and I don't have to feel like this is all a shame I'm holding or bearing, right? And so, I just, I love that.
Lauren Duncan (09:21.102)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think, you know, I'm trying to remember the words that we used yesterday, but I can't remember what else I'll say now. I'm sorry.
Alex (09:22.205)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (09:37.277)
I'm going to go to bed.
Brenda (09:38.328)
It's alright. I do that all the time.
Lauren Duncan (09:41.646)
Hehe
Alex (09:43.247)
What I was hearing in your story Lauren is that part of the experience of the fall was that you didn't
like you felt like you were out of resources to handle this suffering. So it was like this depletion of resources or the old coping skills that you fell back on before were not working for you this time. Like just be able to put a smile on your face, just be able to keep going. And that kind of takes us into the redemption part of the story of there are a lot of ways that we seek help or rescue inside of ourselves where we try to continue to be the hero of the story.
Lauren Duncan (10:19.786)
Yes, absolutely.
Alex (10:23.213)
outside of ourselves maybe you can talk a little bit more about ways that you were seeking I call it rescue and refuge in the midst of this struggle.
Lauren Duncan (10:31.462)
Mmm.
The first thing that comes to mind is just all the physical things that we tried. You just, I mean you try to pretend like you're okay and then you start hearing things. I think thinking about my story and during this time I've become more aware of the things that speak over my kids just because there's things that people speak over you and they just kind of linger. And I think there's still things that I need to talk to the Lord about that.
Alex (10:44.691)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (10:54.377)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (11:03.294)
replay in my mind from that time. But things like, you know, if one person told me they had a struggle getting pregnant and they just, the Lord had to work something out in her head to get right and then she got pregnant. And that plays in your mind, like what's wrong with my head? What's wrong with my heart? Why isn't this working? And it kind of leads you to like a.
you know, like a math equation. Like it should be this plus this plus this equals we get pregnant, you know? And that's not, yes.
Alex (11:31.915)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (11:35.856)
And then you have to save yourself. I mean, really, it's like you have to figure out what the formula is to save yourself.
Alex (11:37.62)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (11:41.65)
Yes, it was like gluten free, dairy free, don't drink alcohol, do whatever I want. I don't know if you just go through all these different things to try to make the equation work. And it didn't work for us.
Alex (11:43.9)
Yeah.
Brenda (11:44.951)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (11:47.26)
Yeah
Brenda (11:47.668)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (11:53.639)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (11:57.384)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (11:58.28)
When I think about how pretending is so exhausting, you know, when you're always having to be up, when you're always having to present a certain way, when you're living in.
Alex (12:01.35)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (12:01.803)
Yeah.
Brenda (12:08.472)
really you're living in one reality but you're having to present another reality so it's exhausting and because of the pretending and then it's just isolating because you feel so alone like people don't really know me they don't really know what i'm going through they don't know how much i'm hurting um and you know we we've talked in previous episodes that's why it's really important for us to know our own stories so that we can enter into other people's stories because sort of like the lady that you were maybe talking about that sometimes we want to be really
Lauren Duncan (12:20.275)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (12:31.618)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brenda (12:38.626)
our own story and instead of mapping God's story onto somebody's story, I map my story onto your story, right? And then somehow or another that's gonna fix your story or make me feel better. Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (12:40.539)
Yeah, that, yeah.
Lauren Duncan (12:47.0)
Yes, absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Alex (12:51.45)
Mm-hmm and Lauren I know you ended up finding out that this was a genetic issue, but even that was a process right? I mean there were medical yeah
Lauren Duncan (12:59.11)
Lots of doctors appointments, lots of people praying for us, lots of email updates to everybody. One thing I was thinking also just about my personality that was hard in that time, just like I said earlier, like I love to encourage people, like that's one of my spiritual gifts and I like to bring good news. I like to, you know, be a positive, you know, force. I don't know if that's the right word or not, but.
Alex (13:06.924)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (13:26.826)
At this time, I had no good news. You know, people are like, how's it going? How was the doctor's appointment? And it was like, I had to continually share. I didn't have any good news to share. And that was just, it just made me sad. It made me socially awkward, I think a little bit because I didn't want to go certain places where I knew that was going to happen or people were going to ask certain questions.
Alex (13:42.728)
Hehehe
Lauren Duncan (13:52.51)
What was the, what's my prompt again? Yes. So we did, we went to all sorts of doctors here that tried to do all sorts of different things. And then we went to a doctor in Birmingham that just said, this was probably the darkest moment. I mean, I just, I wish there was, I could see like a video camera from the ceiling in this doctor's office, but I just totally fell apart. He, we thought we were going to get answers and he just.
Alex (13:54.227)
We were talking about medical interventions too. I'm sure you wonder, yeah.
Lauren Duncan (14:22.282)
told us about IVF. He did no test on us, no nothing, just started talking about it. And I, I mean, I remember the nurses like having to like physically move me because I just like, I don't know, like it was just my whole body just totally fell apart. And I don't even remember parts of it because I was just sobbing in this doctor's office. And just not understanding why and the process and
Alex (14:24.459)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (14:38.208)
Collapsed.
Lauren Duncan (14:51.734)
Then later we figured out what the issue was and.
We went to a different doctor and it was, I don't know. I think, you know, we've got to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and when it's just kind of feels like a closed door, like sometimes it is a closed door and then sometimes you feel the Spirit saying, no, like this is not, don't go through this door. But we finally found a doctor who he thought he could, I mean,
Give us a baby, make us a baby. But it was like so high tech and he was so excited and like bragging about what he thought he could, I don't know, it just didn't feel right. And it cost like a kajillion dollars and there was like one in 10 chance it could work. I don't know. Anyways, so we got there and then we looked into embryo adoption.
Alex (15:27.807)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (15:47.814)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (15:54.166)
Did we talk about that? We probably, I don't know if we did. So we went down that path too. And we, I mean, to the point where we were in counseling and the doctor's office had started sending us profiles of embryos we could adopt. And that was another dark day because it was, it was the same thing. It was like the Holy Spirit, like I'm looking through these profiles and it's like picking out, it felt like it was picking out like.
Brenda (15:54.217)
Yeah.
Alex (15:57.248)
I don't remember.
Lauren Duncan (16:22.274)
I don't know, like I was choosing, you know, like you get categories and you're seeing the health records and pictures of the parents and I don't want to say the wrong thing there, but it just didn't, it was unsettling to me. It did not feel like that was what the Lord was calling us to do. And I think it's a great thing that people do that because it's embryos are children. I think it's an amazing ministry that people do that. I still think about it. We probably still do it now.
Alex (16:42.527)
Right.
Brenda (16:46.017)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (16:50.858)
But anyways, we have plenty of children at this point. But.
Brenda (16:53.638)
So, Lauren.
Do you think that, you know, I have that same encourage your personality and I always say that nobody wants a cheerleader at a funeral, right? Because we just want to come with all the good news and show it with our pom-poms and our megaphone and it's like this is not an appropriate time or place for that. But I'm just wondering because you've suffered so deeply and obviously we know the end of the story that you've received great comfort from the Lord in so many ways, do you think that it's made it easier for you to sit with people in pain?
Lauren Duncan (17:11.041)
Yeah.
Brenda (17:26.31)
or to bear or hold bad news better than you were before this experience.
Lauren Duncan (17:31.43)
Yes, absolutely. And I have one specific friend who has gone through great loss and I have one other good friend that went through infertility. And there's just like a special connection there. Like we can understand what each other are going through on a different level. And, cause I can tell someone who's got eight kids how it feels.
Alex (17:51.577)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (17:59.946)
or someone, you know what I'm saying? But to have that heart to heart connection with the grief that you've gone through, yeah.
Brenda (18:06.32)
Sure, that shared suffering. That shared suffering is, yeah, absolutely. Well, it's definitely one of the things that deep suffering and deep comfort give us and maybe in our personalities especially that we can sit better with people and we don't have to be the consummate cheerleader and we can be okay with tears and we can be okay with sad for as long as we need to, as we help move people through the story.
Lauren Duncan (18:16.974)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (18:22.953)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (18:32.943)
Lauren, I'm going to go back to what we call the story before the story, the prologue. You talked about going to church and not even making it harder. Do you think there are other influences, including the church, maybe family or cultural, like big picture influences that made you believe that this was something you had to have children, like having children was what you were made for or what you were defined by?
Lauren Duncan (19:02.938)
I think for sure I think people in my family and in the church you know the children are a blessing from the Lord. I wrote down the scripture which Alex I could not believe this I had never noticed this before but two of the scriptures we talked about yesterday were both in Psalm 127. So Psalm 127 says unless the Lord builds the house those who build it labor in vain unless the Lord watches over the city the watchman stays awake in vain. And then verse
Alex (19:20.383)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (19:31.278)
is like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the mayor who fills his quiver with them. He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate. Anyways, I did not realize those two verses were right next to each other. I thought that was so interesting because I feel like verse one gives me such comfort in our story, but the verse four and five is kind of the part that's talked about at church openly.
Alex (19:45.666)
Hmm
Alex (19:51.347)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (19:59.53)
And I think I just thought it was a given, you know, like I didn't, um, I don't know.
Alex (20:02.747)
Right. Yeah.
Brenda (20:04.672)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (20:08.714)
Yeah.
Brenda (20:09.526)
I think it is interesting that the verse you read in 130, what was the second part of that verse? It says, the man whose quiver is full will be blessed or is blessed.
Lauren Duncan (20:19.198)
Yeah, the blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them.
Alex (20:22.065)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (20:22.508)
And yet just as a mother of three children, you know, and having one that has struggled greatly Kind of to your point is like if you have all these children they're gonna be a blessing and it is a blessing because God will use the child who's doing well and the child who's struggling to Draw your own heart to Jesus, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the blessing in the way We think it's gonna be like children are always gonna be great and being a mom It's just they're gonna rise up and call you blessed by the time
Lauren Duncan (20:42.328)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (20:51.958)
Yeah.
Brenda (20:52.122)
They're going to worship the ground you walk on, you know, like it's a blessing in the sense that like maybe your hardest child is your greatest blessing because it's the heart, because it's where you have the most Christ conformity and have to trust in the Lord. So just a little twist, but I can see like in the church how we take that as a like a numbers thing instead of like maybe it's because the more children you have, the more you got to die to yourself and the more you got to trust in Jesus.
Lauren Duncan (20:59.99)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (21:04.45)
Wow. Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (21:14.326)
Mm, absolutely.
Alex (21:16.651)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Yeah, and I can hear even what you're saying, Lauren, of how the church almost creates a story or a narrative of like, you grow up, you get married, you have children. Like, these are things that are inevitable. And, you know, we, you know, I think we have more conversation around the fact that we need to be talking about
Alex (21:49.661)
but that you know we need to stop thinking of people's lives as this plan or equation again we're back to equation like this is what we do and we need to learn how to interact with people who have all different stories within the church and for your story you did grow up get married and then the having children part becomes hard and it's like now what and what does the what is
Lauren Duncan (21:59.118)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (22:19.861)
say about me as a woman when I am struggling to do what they tell me I'm supposed to do.
Lauren Duncan (22:29.558)
And that makes me think of just a whole other part of my story, but goes back to church brokenness. Before I got married, the Lord called me to be a missionary in West Africa. So I went and lived for a year and taught art, which is amazing because I'd always wanted to be a missionary, but I thought I had to be a doctor to be a missionary. But you can be an art teacher and be a missionary. You can be an artist and be a missionary. You could do that. But anyways, the organization I worked for, there was a lot of brokenness there and I didn't...
Brenda (22:41.204)
Mmm.
Alex (22:49.694)
Hahaha
Brenda (22:49.992)
It's awesome.
Lauren Duncan (22:58.082)
stay another year. I finished my year and came home and I think after following the Lord to do something like that and then experiencing that brokenness in the church or in ministry, I was like, well I guess I'll just get married and have kids. I don't know, like it just does that make sense what I'm saying? I guess I'll just, alright, I'll just do the thing I'm supposed to do and I don't know, didn't work out.
Alex (23:13.859)
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Brenda (23:14.639)
Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brenda (23:21.524)
Hehehe
Alex (23:21.699)
Uh huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brenda (23:24.714)
Hehehe
Alex (23:25.083)
Yeah, I think there's a lot to that, do the thing I'm supposed to do. And I think again, there's a lot of really well-meaning teaching that is not trying to convey that message and yet is conveying the message of this is what you're supposed to do. And so it leads to, when I was here and you talk about being a happy, joyful person, so there's an identity crisis happening on a lot of different levels. One, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do. And two, I can't even be the person that
Brenda (23:38.866)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (23:48.226)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (23:49.152)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (23:54.997)
I want to be. So here's another part of an identity crisis of like I want to be an encourager, I want to be this person and because of this suffering I'm not even being that. So so much of suffering does erode our sense of who we are, you know.
Lauren Duncan (24:08.526)
Hmm, absolutely. It takes you to places you've never been. The word exposed comes back to mind. It exposes different parts of your heart, different things that you think are your identity. But maybe you shouldn't be.
Brenda (24:10.025)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (24:15.656)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (24:19.955)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (24:23.617)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (24:23.738)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (24:25.647)
Yeah, do you think, Lauren, we have this question about restoration that the restoration part of our story, of course, in Christ is that he restores all things to us. He makes all things new. But that in a lot of our stories, what the restoration part of our story is, is that we live for another reason other than Christ coming for us again. Like we put our hope in things other than the ultimate hope in Jesus.
It goes too far to say that for a lot of us as Christian women, we even put our hope in the fact that we become wives and we become mothers.
Lauren Duncan (25:04.17)
I would go even further. I would say that we're supposed to be good mothers, that we're supposed to mother a certain way, that we're supposed to, I mean, and even, I don't know, there's so many working moms now. So like I work and I'm mom, and there's that struggle there, because I feel like the identity for doing my job, my art, kind of builds me up. You know, I don't know, there's just a lot of different things there, but yes, for sure.
Alex (25:08.156)
Yes.
Alex (25:32.374)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so easy to take the good things that God's given us and then make them ultimate. And that, yeah, I think that's what we're talking about. It's good to be a wife, it's good to be a mother, it's good to be an artist, it's good to be a working woman, but we turn those into ultimate things. So I don't know if there's anything else you want to say about the fall part of the story or the ways that you, what kind of what brought you to the place of seeing me. But I love what happened next. I just think it's just so amazing what God's given us.
did in really a relatively short period of time. You on my side of the story, I'm gonna tell my side of the story, then I'm gonna let you go your side of the story. But on my side of the story, I was just studying the grand narrative and all these concepts before you came to me. And so you're one of the first people that I remember sitting with and hearing your story and like being able to see the grand narrative. Like I could see the arc in your life.
Brenda (26:14.665)
Hehehehe
Lauren Duncan (26:30.22)
Mm. I love that.
Alex (26:35.681)
shared that with you because that's what just what was going on in my head as you were talking like just being able to see so clearly the suffering part of your story the ways that you had tried but then what we did was we began to explore the creation part of your story or I think that's where we kind of re-entered and started to talk about some other things so I'm gonna let you tell kind of your perspective on what that process was like.
Lauren Duncan (27:02.154)
Yeah, I think we haven't talked about beautify and multiply. I love how you say that. I think that gave me some language for why I was feeling broken. I think I felt guilty for feeling broken. You know, like I'm supposed to have it together and I can't be mad about this. God's done all these other great things in my life. I can't be upset. You know, that kind of mind game.
Alex (27:06.46)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (27:25.858)
But recognizing that in like this real tangible way, and I think as an artist, those words just really spoke to me that women were created to beautify and multiply and that wasn't happening for me in a certain way that I expected. But it was just like oozing out of me anyways. And it found its way out in a lot of other ways and other ways that I could mother us. Started painting more.
painting became kind of like my prayer time with the Lord and I would either have a scripture on my mind or a emotion on my mind and I would start to paint and I just the Lord would just meet me in that time and in that space and even on the dark days there was one painting I did where the whole canvas is black except for this one tiny little piece of gold leaf on it and it just an illustration for me to look back on.
Even when I felt overcome with the darkness and the suffering, the Lord was still faithful to show up even in those small little ways. But I started seeing the paintings kind of as my children. And they would, I would like create these paintings and send them to their forever homes. And it was like people were adopting them. And I was just able to send art out, art and encouragement out.
Alex (28:39.977)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (28:55.722)
Then I started writing. Is that where you want me to go?
Alex (28:59.937)
Oh by the way, I started writing.
Brenda (29:01.8)
Hehehe Hehehehe
Lauren Duncan (29:02.69)
So this is how it started with Lolly and it's basically my story. It's this little girl Lolly and she goes through all these different ups and downs of life and she learns to paint her prayers. So like this day her brother's being mean to her so she painted her. If somebody was teasing her and so she felt sad and she remembered God's promise to love her.
asked her to love her friends in the same way, and she painted and prayed for her friend. So she learned to paint all these emotions and it's connected with scripture. And then at the end, it says, Lolly started showing her paintings to friends. She realized they needed the words painted as much as she did. So she decided to share them. So anyways, it's kind of like a way for other people to experience what I have experienced, to teach kids that, you know, it's...
Alex (29:45.972)
Hmm.
Brenda (29:50.505)
I love it.
Lauren Duncan (29:59.102)
It's okay to be pressured. It's okay to be mad, but just to take it to the Lord. And on the canvas is such a safe place. Like I can paint that black canvas and paint the light back into it. And I'm being authentic in that. I'm expressing my real hurt and pain, but also reminding myself, I'm preaching to myself at the same time about God's goodness and his faithfulness and his life that does shine in the dark places. So I tried to get that book published.
Brenda (30:20.032)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (30:26.098)
And then I got a deal to write this book, which is even bigger and it's got bigger words and it's for bigger people. It's a creative devotional book. It's kind of the way we've, we kind of made that up. I don't think that's a thing really, but this is a creative devotional book for young girls. Eight to 12 is the target, but I've done it with six year olds and I've, I've known moms and college students that have enjoyed going through it also. But it's devotional.
and each one has an art project that goes with it. So it's all like, I don't know, it's just been really cool to see the Lord put all this stuff together and how I can beautify and multiply in different ways and discipling people spiritually through the book and through the encouragement. And so now I paint my prayers all the time and that's what I, every day, I don't know. And I've written more books, hopefully there'll be more books.
Brenda (31:23.934)
Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (31:27.26)
So, we'll see.
Alex (31:27.613)
Mm hmm. I think when I met you, the publisher had just challenged you to do this. You were starting to put it together and you were like...
I mean, do you think I should do this? And I was thinking, who has a publisher come to them and say, please publish this book. Like that was just so far out of my realm of possibility. I was like, yes, you should do this. Like you have all these ideas. You think I should put them together and then publish this book. I was like, absolutely you should. But we did really talk a lot about the multiply beautify. We, Brenda and I love to teach that. Of course in, in Genesis we hear multiply.
Brenda (31:42.016)
Hehehe
Brenda (31:48.608)
Hehe hehehe
Alex (32:04.989)
I don't know how to put people on this earth, but that what Jesus did when he gave the Great Commission was he allowed us to see that multiply was also spiritual multiplication and that we didn't need to just get fixated on this physical multiplication. And then we love the word beautify too, that you know when God said like, tend and keep the earth, that we had a job to bring beauty and to bring order out of chaos. And so all of that just kind of came together in your story of.
Lauren Duncan (32:26.314)
Mmm.
Alex (32:35.829)
you have in a gifting and experiences that the Lord could use in order to beautify and to be able to multiply yourself spiritually and that we I think began to really talk about that maybe what the Lord had for you in that season was not physical multiplication but was a more of a spiritual multiplication and I just love because it was like all you needed were those
Brenda (33:06.147)
Yeah, I think it just goes to show how if we get stuck in any identity as a primary identity other than child of God, purpose to be worshippers that help other people become worshippers, how just...
Lauren Duncan (33:12.279)
Mm. Yeah.
Brenda (33:23.056)
Yeah, just how we can become so discouraged when it doesn't work out the way we wanted it to work out. But the crazy thing about your story, Lauren, is there is a huge plot twist. And I love the way God writes a story, and I love that he allowed you to find your truest identity in him through the wrestle and struggle of infertility. And I know your story is not everybody's story. Not everybody is going to have the same end of the story that you've had for years.
Alex (33:32.623)
Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (33:33.422)
hahahaha
Brenda (33:53.01)
next because, wow, it must have been completely unexpected.
Lauren Duncan (33:58.178)
Totally unexpected. So even past all the doctors visits, we had tried to adopt several different situations and again more layers of brokenness when those adoptions didn't work out. But I felt the Lord call us to foster care and my husband was like, no he's not calling us to do that. We're not doing that. And I was like, no Jesus is telling me right now we are supposed to do foster care. And couldn't get on the same page and it was so unexpected because we were there. We were
there with we weren't even trying to do anything at this point. We get a phone call from a friend of a friend that says we hear y'all want to adopt. We have this baby. His name is the same as my dad's name. Would we be interested in meeting him? And so of course we're like, all right, Jesus, yes, we'll do this crazy thing that seems not normal at all. And we ended up adopting him and his biological brother and then his biological little sister. So we have
three adopted babies and they're precious and beautiful and smart and I mean they're hard at times too, let's be honest, but they're... yes, my quiver is full now so... yes, absolutely.
Alex (35:02.623)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (35:08.72)
That's right. The blessing that they are, Lauren. The blessing that they are. They come to sanctify. That's the blessing. Oh, I think I read on your website, wasn't it like every year for three years at Christmas or something like that, or the summer on the same day? It was like very like every year it was like there was a new baby coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Christmas baby.
Alex (35:11.153)
Hahahaha
Lauren Duncan (35:26.679)
It's
Every year for Christmas there was a new baby. So … was October, so we had him, maybe take his name out if that's okay. Is that okay to say? Okay. All right. So we got the first one in October and he was home for that Christmas and then the sibling came home the week before Christmas the next year and then unexpectedly there was another one that we're so grateful for.
She went to Daddy Daughter Date Night last night and had a great time. Got her all dressed up. It was so cute. And then she was born in November the next year. So three years.
Brenda (36:00.614)
Hehe
Alex (36:01.303)
Hahaha
Brenda (36:06.932)
Hmm.
Well, congratulations. I think that's just amazing and phenomenal. And another thing I just want to point out that I really love is that now that you have these children, it's not like you set down the art. You've made that a part of your parenting. You've made that a part of their world. You've brought your distinct, the distinctives of you as a mother and your design that God has given to you now to impart that to your children. And for them to see you using the other aspects of your image-bearing
Lauren Duncan (36:21.345)
Yeah.
Brenda (36:38.882)
minister to a watching world and to multiply and beautify outside of the context of just being a mommy or a wifey. And so I just I love that. What a... you just have an amazing and a beautiful story. I hope everybody will watch the this on YouTube because you're just so vibrant. You just have such a big smile and a big personality and just really so... you have so much joy Lauren. And you
Lauren Duncan (36:46.984)
Yeah.
Brenda (37:08.582)
doubt that so much of your joy, not just happiness, like having to fake it, but like your joy has come from the deep sorrowing that you've also experienced and the deep comfort that you've had from Jesus as well.
Lauren Duncan (37:21.786)
And just one more thing I feel like I should say is that it's adopting three children doesn't make all the pain go away. I feel like I still have moments and I feel like it's just waves. Like I have things that will happen or there's still like a wave of grief. But I have basically a speech that I preach to myself in those moments. And usually if I go to sleep, I wake up and I'm great the next day.
Alex (37:30.227)
Amen, yeah I'm glad you said that.
Brenda (37:32.275)
Yeah.
Brenda (37:45.876)
Hmm.
Lauren Duncan (37:50.37)
But there still are those waves where I have to preach to myself that God is good in this and remind myself of truth and that he built this house and this house is a good house because he built this house that we live in and meaning my family. But it's not like.
Alex (37:58.251)
Hmm.
Brenda (37:58.439)
Yeah.
Brenda (38:07.188)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (38:10.183)
I just want people to hear like, yeah.
Brenda (38:12.806)
Yeah, multiplication looks different than you thought it was going to look. Like through your art and even through God bringing these children to you, it's still not what you thought it was going to look like in the beginning.
Alex (38:22.695)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Duncan (38:23.306)
And in so many ways, it's so much better. I don't, you know, it's just amazing.
Brenda (38:25.476)
Yeah, it's precious. That's so sweet.
Alex (38:25.82)
Yeah.
Hmm. And I think the other part that I want people to hear through that too, Lauren, is that it's not like you, you went through this trial and God taught you these things and you trusted His story and He brought you to this conclusion that you wanted and now
Brenda (38:41.418)
Yep.
Alex (38:47.255)
you just you skip off happily in arm in arm with Jesus like you're still having to get up every day and trust the story like you're still having to reorient yourself every day for all different reasons to what do you to what God says about you what God says about your family what he's continuing to teach you about who he is and his ways and so like it's such a it's such a beautiful story of redemption it's such a beautiful story of God working through your unique design
Brenda (38:48.22)
Happily ever after. Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Lauren Duncan (38:49.759)
Yeah.
Brenda (38:54.932)
Yep.
Alex (39:17.651)
but it's still life in a fallen world every day.
Brenda (39:21.14)
That's right. Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (39:22.338)
Yeah. Amen.
Brenda (39:26.14)
Well, Lauren, we want to thank you. We want to thank you for coming and being a part of our podcast. We want to thank you for your transparency and vulnerability to share. Um, just, you know, what's going on, the hard, but also the redemption. And we're excited. We'd love for people to be able to check out your work, to look at your books and to look at your art. And so we're going to put the links, um, to those places to go find those, um, on, in our, in our show notes.
Alex (39:55.028)
Mm.
Brenda (39:56.394)
Yeah, and also I just have to put a plug in here I personally am not an Auburn fan but three of my family members are my daughter my son and my son-in-law and so now I have a little Abbie grandbaby and Even though Paul and I you know when he's over here We're gonna try to you know get some ball stuff on him without his parents See, but you've got not only do you have the spiritual side which is so beautiful Your work is really just incredible, but you've also got some really fun Auburn stuff And so if there's some other
Alex (40:14.981)
Hehehehe
Brenda (40:25.954)
Auburn fans listening, we'd love to hear a little War Eagle shout out from you. And go to Lauren's websites as well and you can see some really cute apparel and pictures and things that have to do with Auburn.
Lauren Duncan (40:30.518)
Hehehe
Lauren Duncan (40:39.17)
Thank you so much.
Alex (40:41.055)
Lauren, you've been a great sport. Thank you for sharing your story. I know that sometimes it can be hard to know exactly the wisest and most caring way you can share deeply personal parts of your story, but you've just blessed us by being willing to do that. And by letting us use this as an example of how to think through our own stories through the grand narrative of God's great story. So thank you for being with us.
Brenda (40:56.42)
Yeah.
Lauren Duncan (41:07.402)
You're so welcome. It was a joy. I'm glad I get to see y'all.