S6 Bonus Episode / Shauna Transcript
Brenda (00:09.056)
Well, Alex, we're so excited to have our friend, Shana Van Dyke join us today. Shana is an author and a counselor, the executive director of ABC, which we're gonna be talking a lot more about. She's the host of her own podcast, Speak the Truth. And mostly I just wanna say that she has been an incredible supporter and encouragement to you and me in our personal ministries. We are certified with ABC as counselors. And yeah, just to be able to do some collaboration
Alex (00:14.598)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (00:39.03)
ABC has been really exciting for us, and we're just really thankful, Shana, to have you on with us today.
Shauna Van Dyke (00:44.962)
Thanks for the invite. I can't wait to get my known sweater. I need to order that. It's so cute. Yeah. Thanks for the invite.
Alex (00:45.204)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (00:49.462)
Hahaha!
Brenda (00:51.128)
Well, we'll have to see about getting you one for sure. That'd be great. We'd love to have you sporting that.
Alex (00:53.371)
That's right.
Brenda (00:57.592)
Yeah, well listen, I thought it would be good just to start with letting our audience know a little bit about you and your journey into biblical counseling. Most of our listeners are lay counselors who are just wanting to know how to counsel their own hearts, how to counsel the people in their sphere of influence. And before we get into talking about the Association of Biblical Counselors, maybe you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and your own journey.
Shauna Van Dyke (01:22.602)
Yeah, thanks for asking. Well, really my history is in corporate America. And so that's kind of really where I started as far as just in my gift and leadership. And so it was really awesome just to spend many years in the fashion industry. And in 2014, God called me to counsel. And so I read Instruments of Redeemer's Hands by Paul Tripp, which I'm sure you and maybe some of your listeners are familiar with it.
Alex (01:43.324)
Hmm.
Brenda (01:43.921)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (01:46.874)
and just knew right away, like this is what I was supposed to do, but just not knowing what that looked like. And so my husband and I, just in our own struggles in our marriage and me not understanding what a godly marriage looked like, seeked out Christian counseling. And through that journey, we realized, wow, this is so needed in the church. And so that kind of began our journey of saying, hey, why isn't this more in the church? And this, you know, in this, we're in the season that we were in and the area that we were in.
Alex (02:05.689)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (02:15.754)
and just wanting to learn more about that. And obviously knowing that having a desire like that is obviously a stirring of the Lord. And so I'm so thankful for him just giving us that desire, allowing us to see the need. And so that really began my journey of what is biblical counseling? What training is out there that's available? How can I get connected to other like-minded ministry leaders in that way? How can we get equipped to care in the church? And so that's kind of, that's what I did. So I jumped in and.
Um, I went to CCF conferences at the time. And I went to ABC conferences at the time, cause they're a part of Texas. And so it was local and really easy. Um, and then just both my husband and I together just fell in love with just God's word, obviously, and what that meant to encourage others to, to live joyfully and faithfully amidst their struggles. And, um, and so now I've just been doing that for the last 10 years. I, um,
Alex (02:46.608)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (03:09.862)
I left corporate America, I launched a counseling ministry here in Keller, Texas, called Truth Renewed. And we founded that specifically in the community to be on mission for the local church and to provide free biblical counseling to the community. We wanted to take the whole financial liability out of providing counseling, always knowing, though, that we believe counseling belongs in the church. But we wanted to be on mission for the church. So how can we provide free counseling and then hopefully help?
Alex (03:22.243)
Wow.
Shauna Van Dyke (03:36.562)
others get connected to a local church if they're not already connected. And so that's really where I spent the majority of my time doing biblical counseling, is through our counseling ministry.
Brenda (03:46.42)
Yeah, that's great. I think Alex and I would say that the number one book we would recommend to somebody who is getting into biblical counseling or wants to know more about it is Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands by Paul Tripp. And so we could put that in our show notes as well to link folks to that. It's just a tremendous book to start off with to give such a beautiful framework. And then I love what you said that you really entered into this journey because you had a need yourself, that there was something in your marriage, in your life that you're realizing.
Shauna Van Dyke (03:55.53)
100%.
Alex (03:56.482)
Yeah.
Shauna Van Dyke (04:01.358)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (04:12.101)
Hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (04:12.244)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (04:16.354)
Bible have to say about this? How did the scriptures speak to this? And I know for me it was very much the same way. And Alex, probably for you as well, like we didn't necessarily come into biblical counseling saying, I want to be a biblical counselor, you know, in any sort of professional ministry realm or even, you know, doing it on a regular basis, but more so just out of, I want to know.
Alex (04:25.047)
Yeah.
Alex (04:28.397)
Yep.
Brenda (04:38.28)
how God's word will make a difference in my life with my struggles of sin and suffering. And then through that, to see the powerful change and the comfort that came to my own heart made me then just wanna go like, everybody needs to know this. You know? Yeah.
Alex (04:52.62)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I remember coming home and telling Mason after my first biblical counseling class, like, um, I feel like we should be paying a lot more money for this because like this is probably the best thing I've ever done for my marriage, for my parenting, for being a good friend, just for every, every role in my life. I felt like just got enhanced by what I was learning about the way scripture intersected with life because counseling is basically applied theology. I tell people that all the time.
How are we going to live this out? And it was like, oh wow, the Bible has a lot to say about that.
Brenda (05:29.58)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Yeah, and I really love what you said, too, just this idea of locating counseling in or putting counseling in the local church, you know, letting that be really where it springs from. And I know that that's Alex and I very much share that heart as well. In fact, sometimes it's been really hard for us to do ministry outside of our local church, whether it's this podcast or being asked to speak at conferences or those sort of things, because we are very committed to our local body that God has us serving in.
Shauna Van Dyke (05:39.991)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (05:52.5)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (06:01.214)
So I love that emphasis in biblical counseling as well and in the training.
Shauna Van Dyke (06:07.422)
Yeah, it's very important. I mean, the local churches, God's chosen place for us to care. And so how we how we care really matters if the community of believers is the best place to get help. And so technically, we're all called to care. But you know, for my journey, it was more you know, and I love that too. It is applied theology, Alex, like 100%. And one of the other ways that I break it down is
Alex (06:12.153)
Mm.
Shauna Van Dyke (06:28.198)
It's intentional discipleship versus intentional discipleship. So we're, we're caring as a body of believers, right? We're all called for that. It's not a specialized group of people that does it. So if you're a believer, you're doing that you're caring for others, but as an intentional discipleship, or do you have to get, are you called to get that extra training where my husband and I were to do more intensive discipleship where we're kind of stepping in the mud of someone who's struggling with suicide or marital distress or
Alex (06:32.624)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (06:37.644)
That's right.
Shauna Van Dyke (06:53.29)
you know, deep depression or, you know, overwhelming anxiety. And so that's not everyone's journey, but you know, it is so important in which I love your podcast and have been so encouraged by it because you guys are making it very practical. You're breaking down things and explaining in a way that all the body of believers, our entire body of believers, right, can live out the one another's and understand it in a way that they can live it out in their community groups or in their relationships and friendships and stuff. So thank you all for.
for doing the work of the ministry too, for creating this podcast and giving a space for people to learn and grow.
Brenda (07:28.137)
Well, thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, I like to think about
Alex (07:28.236)
Thank you, Mrs.
Shauna Van Dyke (07:29.625)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (07:33.504)
this sort of ministry is like problem initiated discipleship and only say that. I used to say even like intensive would be a good word. And then some people said it was problem directed. And I thought, I don't really like that terminology. But I think kind of this idea of initiated, like somebody is coming to you with a problem and you're going to link arms with them and kind of what's initiated. Maybe the meeting is some sinner suffering struggle, but then you're committed to walking a journey with them to help them grow in their walk with Christ.
Alex (07:41.827)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (08:03.898)
and to receive some sort of healing or change or comfort along the way as opposed to maybe what we might call today spiritual formation where you meet with somebody for discipleship to teach them how to you know read their Bible and study their Bible and pray and do the disciplines and accountability and encouragement and you know the reality is that every person living in the fall has problems and so I always say if we're gonna have enough professional paid counselors to help everybody then it's gonna have to be a one-for-one right then we all have to become professional counselors and
Alex (08:31.807)
Hehehehe
Brenda (08:33.358)
So that is the beauty of the local church, that we can be equipped, that we can get equipped, that we can help one another be equipped, one for one, to have relationships that are really not just solving our problems, but helping us become more like Christ and giving God the glory and putting Him on display, putting Christ on display as we're helping people grow into Christ-likeness through that entryway of helping people in their problems.
Shauna Van Dyke (08:59.242)
Yeah, for sure. And it does look different in the church, right? Where you're saying in the counseling standpoint, you have someone who might be coming to you with their hearts already prepared and ready for wisdom. They already kind of maybe even identified where they think the problem or the struggle is, and they're asking for you specific feedback for that. But how much harder it is to be in, say, a community group and you recognize pride in someone and then, you know, their heart might not be ready for you to.
Brenda (09:20.576)
Mmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (09:23.222)
kind of admonish or encourage them in that way. And so there is so much to grow and learn and just asking wise questions. And I noticed on your website, you actually have classes like a virtual 10 classes that you can take to learn. And I saw it's like listening and discerning questions. And those things, those skillset, that's not just for counselors. That's for all of us as a body believer because we might be in those scenarios or we need to help someone and encourage them in their pride, right?
Alex (09:43.74)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (09:51.442)
or certain things that they're not asking for feedback, but we might be called to kind of step into those conversations. So to know how to listen well and to ask good questions, all those things are such good things for us to grow and learn as believers and caregivers.
Brenda (10:04.551)
Hmm
Alex (10:05.845)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (10:05.992)
Yeah, and I'm thinking as wives, as husbands, as parents, as neighbors. I mean, all of that gets practiced, practiced the best in the context of a family or close friendships, right? And sometimes we think about counseling is something that we do out there. When really, again, when we think about counseling our own hearts, and then every day, Paul and I are having interactions where there is some level of encouragement or admonishment or comfort that we're giving to one another. So counseling is taking place all of the time.
Shauna Van Dyke (10:11.446)
Yep, amen.
Alex (10:11.693)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (10:19.423)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (10:33.705)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (10:35.992)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (10:36.018)
And clearly the better I can listen and ask questions and, you know, just be present and sit with my children or my husband or my neighbors, the better counselor I'm going to be. So yeah. Well we know that you're the executive director for ABC, which is really exciting to us. And we thought this would just be a great opportunity to introduce our audience to the Association of Biblical Counselors. And what you do.
Shauna Van Dyke (10:47.702)
Yep, that's true.
Alex (10:48.18)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (11:05.87)
Maybe a little bit about your mission, your vision, your agenda, your goals. Yeah, can you tell us a little bit?
Shauna Van Dyke (11:12.182)
Yeah, thanks for asking and I'm thankful that you guys are both certified through us. And so that's such a joy to have women like you leading out in this mission. So ABC, you can go to Chri if you're listening and you're near a website to kind of read a few more of the details. What you'll see online is the mission of ABC, kind of our official statement, is to enlist, encourage, equip, and enrich all believers everywhere to live and counsel the word, applying the gospel to the whole experience of life.
And so really what that is, is it's walking out Ephesians 412. We want to equip the saints with the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ. And we do that through a certification pathway. And so ABC is one organization that provides biblical counseling certification. This allows churches to build or strengthen their soul care ministries within their local body.
And then it also provides the same opportunity for counseling centers who serve the community that are on mission for the local church, kind of like what I mentioned with my ministry, Truth Renewed. But then it also gives training to those who've maybe graduated as a licensed professional counselor and then they're believers, but they want to become better equipped on how to counsel scripture. And so we have a lot of licensed counselors who actually come and get certified through ABC so they can learn how to adequately counsel scripture.
And so through that pathway, whether it's local church, counseling centers, or those licensed counselors who want to get better equipped, that's kind of our three tier of saints that go through our certification pathway. And then in that, you can either go through a training center online, so two different kind of ways that you can do that. But the goal is honestly, a lot of the things that we create and everything that we do as our training is really to get biblical counseling back in the local church.
Alex (12:41.913)
Hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (12:58.858)
We really just want to equip believers wherever they really serve the Lord. But the church to be kind of that first place, right? When someone's getting help or need that needs help and they go to the pastors of the church and saying, here's the hardship or the struggle, the trial or tribulation that I'm in that our churches aren't saying, okay, here, go get connected to this particular person. But they can obviously do that care right there within the church and we can be able to help them.
and get the churches equipped to do that. And so that's really important for ABC and really what our mission and vision is, is just to continue to equip the Saints.
Alex (13:40.217)
You know, Shauna, I've been thinking about, so for Brenda and me both, I think, just like we said before, we began to pursue biblical counseling and even taking classes and becoming certified in biblical counseling without thinking that it was ever going to be a profession for us. And so, as you're thinking about people in a local church who may be right where Brenda and I were, that we're just curious, what would you say are the benefits of pursuing certification?
Shauna Van Dyke (13:56.65)
Mmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (14:10.89)
Well, you know, it's interesting is one of the one of the roles that I actually have that wasn't mentioned before is the middle of last year, I accepted a position at my church as the care and leadership development minister. And so one of my roles there is to create a culture of care. How am I how am I cultivating a culture of care within my local body? And so I feel like you've already kind of shared a little bit that I just think living out the one another scriptures is caring for our body. And it's so essential for all of us.
Alex (14:27.822)
Mm.
Shauna Van Dyke (14:40.226)
to know that that's our call and to be able to train to live that out. But when it goes into intensive discipleship, there's just obviously a lot of struggles that we, if we haven't even personally went through it, that we are unaware of. And so the value of certification is communicating the level of training that you received. It's someone saying, hey, I wanna learn more about this particular area. I wanna grow and how to better care for someone.
in a way that I can speak into some of the harder situations that people are walking through. And so the certification pathway does that. And so, you know, we have different levels at ABC that we have kind of built out as far as the pathway is concerned. And when you get certified through level one, that's where you go through a book called Equipped to Counsel that's written by John Henderson. And what John does is teaches you the basics, gives you a basic knowledge of what it looks like. What is biblical counseling? What is this?
and some of the basic fundamentals of how to be able to start caring for people. And then when you go to level two, that's when you kind of progress forward on your journey as a counselor to then say, okay, I'm ready to gain experience. And so we're going to kind of dig more into theology and our level two. We're going to take a counseling exam. But really the most fruitful area that I see in the level two certification is where you get supervision. And so that's where someone will walk alongside you.
and be able to help you develop the skill set to become a good biblical counselor, where you're really asking good questions and you're listening well and discerning the struggle in a way that you can encourage them properly and rightly in scripture. And so that is the experience. So when someone is ABC level two certified, that's communicating to others, hey, that I've actually got experience, I've had oversight. I really care about growing in my call to care.
And then level three is where we go into kind of specialize. This is where someone says, you know, I see God bringing a lot of people who are struggling with addictions into my life. And so I kind of want to take seven plus months of additional training to kind of hone in on that specialized area so I can better help and be equipped on, you know, helping someone who's struggling with addictions. Or it might be eating disorders. We're actually having one being written right now to help.
Shauna Van Dyke (17:00.674)
women and men grow and being able to better counsel someone who struggle with eating disorders or it's a domestic abuse. And so level three is kind of like where someone would say, I want to become specialized in a particular area and so they'll get a certification in those areas. So the certification is really just the acknowledgement of the training that you've received, just like someone would go to seminary degree and get a, you know, a seminary and get a degree. It's kind of the same mindset of communicating the level of training that you've received.
And so ABC was really intentional, instead of offering kind of one certification, we offer different ones along the journey of you growing. Now, obviously you don't need a certification to care for others. I wanna continue to communicate that. And some people actually, churches use the equipped to counsel book just for an enrichment class. And so they'll just walk through the book with their body and create a class out of it. And they won't do the extra work that it takes to become certified.
Brenda (17:45.05)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (17:49.51)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (18:00.703)
But it's important to them to cultivate a culture of care.
Brenda (18:04.586)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think what we're saying is that a certification is never going to replace or be more important than our own personal knowledge of God's Word and relationship with Him or the leading of the Holy Spirit. But there is something to be said for laying down some skill and some knowledge. And I know for most of us that are doing counseling, we're kind of lifelong students. We're always wanting to improve our skill. We're always wanting to gain more knowledge.
us to help people better. And I love even kind of this idea of like you're the first level being what you call that basic because at some point we really should in the church be able to one another each other on these basic issues of life. And you know a lot of folks that come into counseling, a lot of the people that I deal with, I think, wow, if they just had a spiritual friend who just had maybe some confidence and felt competent to walk with them, they really wouldn't need to come see a professionally trained
even church counselor. They could just walk this out with a friend. I think that's really been lost in our culture because we've moved so much to a professional model in counseling. It's almost like, well, if you have a problem, then you have to go see a professional. It's like, well, if you have a problem and you have somebody who knows the scriptures and relies on the Holy Spirit and has a little bit of skill and knowledge about what you're talking about, then really, and will walk a journey with you, then you have what you need.
Alex (19:07.781)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (19:35.934)
to training that goes to a deeper level because I do think that when we get to what I'm going to call it the three and four hundred level cases, like we do need people who have more case wisdom. We do need people, we need to bring in more people to have more input. The more difficult that the problem gets, the harder that the issue is and the more maybe consequences that are involved. So I really like the way that you're structured and I
anybody could just go into the basic course and find that it's actually very challenging. It's a very challenging course. It's very doable, but basic is not simple. I think that's what I'm trying to say. And you know, and so I've had the privilege of seeing some ladies go through it here. We've had one cohort. We're about to start another one. And you know, I will say that these women have walked away being very challenged.
Alex (20:16.149)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (20:31.072)
definitely felt like they were better equipped at the end. And they're going just back into being wives and mothers and coworkers and leading small groups and those sort of things.
Shauna Van Dyke (20:43.102)
Yeah, for sure. And we need all levels where I might be counseling someone that's struggling with suicidal thoughts, but they need the body, right? They need additional people to be walking with them and supporting them and encouraging them in scripture and helping hold them accountable and all. And so, like, it's not just one person caring, right? We're living out the one and others together. We're following Jesus together. And so it's so important to realize that it's not about
Brenda (21:02.624)
That's right.
Alex (21:02.891)
Right.
Shauna Van Dyke (21:09.722)
It's yes, your particular journey on whatever level or however deep that the Lord wants to teach you on being able to care for other people, but realizing that you're not alone in that and everybody can kind of step in and to be able to encourage and walk with others.
Brenda (21:23.432)
Yeah, that's what I one of the things I love about counseling in the church is that it is such a community project and we can invite other people in to help whether it's You know, helping somebody who needs financial help along with counseling. Whether it's somebody who needs legal help along with counseling. We just have so many resources in the local church that we can pull into any counseling scenario. And aside from the fact that we have the wonderful counselor and
of the Holy Spirit, we also have the body of Christ. And of course, Alex and I call these our superpowers, that we have these resources from out of this world, from heaven to earth, with the word of God, the Spirit and the people of God.
So if somebody's not ready for certification, though, Shana, what are some other ways they could dip their toe into the water just to learn more about ABC and maybe just get more training or more knowledge and skill apart from having to go straight to certification?
Shauna Van Dyke (22:23.978)
Well, you know, honestly, you guys didn't pay me for this, but I would say take your 10 training course that you have on the website. Like I was looking at that and I'm like, should I take a refresher course? I mean, this is pretty good. I'm like, I went back up a couple of times and I'm like, is a hundred dollars really it for this? Like I kind of want this, all their handouts for that. That's worthy. So.
Brenda (22:29.472)
Hehe
Alex (22:31.398)
Yes!
Brenda (22:40.332)
I'm sorry.
Shauna Van Dyke (22:43.998)
I mean, I know that's that you, I mean, it really is. I was looking at the website. I really think that would be a great way for someone to get started because it doesn't feel like a large commitment. You guys, it looks like you'll have it in a way that they can kind of watch it in their own time. So that would be one way, I think, just to even let that stir in them. Like, do I like this? Like, do I find joy and get excited about what you guys are teaching and looking at the handouts? And so...
Brenda (23:03.02)
Mmm.
Alex (23:03.127)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (23:09.366)
That kind of tells someone immediately, like is my call a little bit extra? I think also just, you know, as God brings people in your life, if you have a lot of people kind of come into you and always seeking your wisdom and guidance because of your love for the Lord and your knowledge in the word, there might be, that might be also kind of letting you know, hey, I might need to step into something extra and kind of get better training in this because once you see.
Brenda (23:14.834)
Hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (23:35.758)
someone who doesn't yet have the training really doesn't maybe know what they're missing out on, but like how you guys even have a lesson there that's talking about discerning questions and listening. I just think those things are so vital and important where I have actually received care that wasn't so caring and they didn't know that, right? They didn't know that they weren't caring well for me, but I felt it in the moment and experiencing that it made me realize like, oh, I don't want to do that to other people. And so
Brenda (23:52.406)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (23:55.44)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (24:05.314)
How can I learn to listen well and be able to encourage properly in scripture and those things? And so that would be one avenue that I think would be the easiest thing to jump in. I think also attending a counseling conference is really good because there's a lot of energy being around like-minded people who are either maybe just curious about biblical counseling or some who've been doing it for many years already to be able to have those types of conversations with people is really good.
Obviously, I think called to council, which is ABC's annual conference in Fort Worth, Texas would be a good one to attend. You can check all that information out at calledtocouncil.com and that kind of tells you all about our speakers. And then, you know, just to share if someone that is listening who hasn't been to the conference, one of the things that I think is really fruitful, because there's lots of different conferences that you can attend. So if you have one that's more local to you, jump into that conference.
If it says biblical counseling, you know, maybe just research some of the speakers, the organization that's doing it, but just get started, just go somewhere. But if you can attend the Fort Worth one and the Call to Counsel, one of the things that I really like about that's unique about our conference is the way that we built out conference tracks. And so when you attend our conference, you'll select a particular track to go to. And what we've done is.
Alex (25:21.875)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (25:26.954)
You have your plenary conference sessions that we'll all go to together and gather together. But then you'll have a specific track that you'll select and within that track over the three day conference, you'll have eight sessions that you'll learn that is specific to a topic. That way when you, and the reason we did it this way is so that when you leave the conference.
you will immediately feel more equipped in a particular area. So you'll have, it's a smaller setting where you go from say, 1500 people to maybe a hundred people in the room. And so it's a lot more intimate classroom type setting. You get one-on-one FaceTime with these, the leading practitioners and professors and speakers. And so ABC invites lots of different people like,
Brenda (26:09.266)
Hmm
Shauna Van Dyke (26:16.302)
some of the authors that you've been reading, professors at some of these seminaries, leading counseling, leaders in counseling organizations, pastors and biblical counselors from all across the states that kind of specializes in a particular area. And so you're learning from someone who you might have just read their book last week, and then you get to ask them questions and talk to them. So there's a lot of intimate connection that you can have at the conference. But
Brenda (26:36.175)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (26:44.342)
When you'll see on the website, the tracks that you get to select from are things like holistic soul care. We have one on trauma that's going to be led by John Henderson. He's actually, he's a board member of ABC, but he teaches trauma at Southern Seminary. So think about being able to come to a track and glean from him and Darby Strickland who works for CCF that you might have read her books and Curtis Solomon. We have a track that's fundamental,
counseling methods. This might be someone who's just starting out that wants to kind of dig into some of that skill set. We have one on addictions. We have one on counseling children and teens, which is an area that we see that the church really needs to grow. So if you're happy to listening and you love children, I want to just like, will you please take the step of attending this conference and go into this track? Because right now a lot of options, I don't know if you know this, but a lot of like, um, counseling centers.
Alex (27:25.044)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (27:27.241)
Yes.
Shauna Van Dyke (27:40.094)
Well, sometimes only take 18 and up. They don't even take teenagers. Some will go down to 13 and up, but even then there's a huge waiting list. So think about your teenager struggling with their understanding their emotions or having suicidal thoughts or just even walking through a breakup or any drama at school to not be able to maybe have care already in their church to help them out, but then to have to wait.
Alex (27:43.583)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (27:49.14)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (28:06.31)
more than three months to see a counselor is really hard. And then even with children, most counseling centers don't do children at all. And so play therapy is really an only option. And so I see children's ministries being built out in churches that are so amazing on a Sunday service, but would you happen to be listening or you're a leader in children's ministry that you would love to counsel children and to be able to help them speak into their lives? And so.
Alex (28:15.301)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (28:30.318)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (28:33.03)
This is a brand new track, by the way, that we are introducing because we just see the need in the church and hoping that people will want to grow. And then obviously we have a grief track and Tim Challey's, who's been a previous guest on your podcast, he's actually leading out on that track. And so you'll have eight sessions to spend with him, Rachel and Paul Touches, to be able to learn how to encourage someone and counsel them with grief. I don't know about you guys, but when I have friends in the church and they've lost a loved one.
Alex (28:36.258)
Mm.
Brenda (28:45.291)
Yeah.
Alex (28:48.761)
Hmm.
Alex (28:53.773)
Mmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (29:03.238)
It's a very sensitive thing. You have this hesitation of what do I do? You know, how do I love them and support them? What do I say? What do I not say? Because you can say things that aren't so helpful. And so this would be a great track if you, you know, if you want to kind of get equipped in that. And then we have one on gender and sexuality. So this is obviously a topic that our church needs to get equipped on. And so you can attend that with Jonathan, Ellen, and Andrew. And then we have conflict resolution.
Alex (29:04.99)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (29:11.195)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (29:24.722)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (29:31.07)
And so a lot of your listeners might be familiar with who Brad Hamburg is or Jeremy Pierre. And then we've also invited Greg and Beth Broom. And so they'll be talking about how, what is conflict resolution, how to handle that and how to help people be able to strive for unity in the, in the local body and in their relationships. Right. Cause we have been seeing as people have had conflict, they, it might be easier to just eliminate that friend or that relationship in our life. But one of the things I try to encourage people is, is how much more growth.
Brenda (29:55.404)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (30:00.814)
is before you and actually pushing through this conflict and wanting to resolve it and to seek harmony among the body versus just retreating. And so yeah, so you could come and like learn from that. So that's a little bit about the conference. So that would be another way that they could, if someone's wanting to learn more about counseling or caring well in the body.
Brenda (30:16.352)
Hmm.
Brenda (30:23.531)
Hmm
Alex (30:23.623)
Mm.
Alex (30:26.829)
So we've got, I've got, Brenda and I both have groups coming to the conference this year and I'm excited because my group is very eclectic in the sense of we have people who are already certified.
Shauna Van Dyke (30:31.723)
Yay!
Brenda (30:32.964)
Hehehe
Alex (30:42.649)
pastor and then people who are in ministry, on ministry staff. And then I have a couple of friends that are just come out on LPC. And then I have two friends that are coming just because they are interested in counseling, want to support the counseling world and just kind of want to see what it's all about. And so it's really going to be a fun group for us. And I want to say that one of the reasons I do love the ABC conference is the tracks are really, I really enjoy, I think my brain works best.
went on a deep dive for a couple of days instead of popcorn a bunch of different topics and so it speaks to my brain the way y'all do things and I really I really like you said getting a little bit more intimate setting with people I'm already reading and knowing about is really nice and then also like I said just being able to concentrate for several days in one area or aspect of counseling that I want to know more about I really I like the structure.
Brenda (31:20.949)
Hehehehehehehehe
Alex (31:42.643)
of the conference itself.
Brenda (31:44.639)
Yeah.
Shauna Van Dyke (31:44.906)
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, what about you, Brenda? Are you coming in the group or are you watching it virtually?
Brenda (31:50.696)
Well, yes, no, we're coming. We've got a, oh, groove, I know. But we would love for a bunch of our listeners to come too and come meet us there. Come meet you, come meet us. That would be so fun. No, we'll be coming and, you know,
Shauna Van Dyke (31:56.119)
Good!
Alex (31:56.191)
We can't stay together because we each have our own group. We're sad.
Shauna Van Dyke (32:00.127)
Oh gosh.
Shauna Van Dyke (32:05.274)
Yes, that would be fun. Yeah.
Brenda (32:10.844)
The last one I went to was excellent. I did the trauma. Darby Strickland was there. Chris Moles, who's written a book and is a big, and Greg, I can't think of his last name. Will said, yes, was there. And it was just, it was really fantastic. Probably one of the best trainings that I've ever done, to be honest with you, it was really very helpful. And so, oh my goodness, yes. Yeah.
Alex (32:20.341)
Wilson
Shauna Van Dyke (32:20.75)
Greg Wilson, yeah.
Shauna Van Dyke (32:30.11)
Yeah, that's so good to hear. And isn't it awesome that you get to talk to them too? Like they're not strangers where they're avoiding you and going to a green room afterwards. They're out and about, like you can just, yeah. And they're just so available to the attendees, yes. So feel free if you're coming to come with questions prepared. Like if I bumped into Jonathan Holmes, what would I ask him? And go ahead and have it prepared. And he would love to talk to you, you know?
Alex (32:35.251)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (32:39.276)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (32:41.002)
Yes, pick their brains. Yeah, yeah, so humble.
Alex (32:45.257)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (32:48.882)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (32:49.121)
So nice, nice. Yeah.
Alex (32:52.298)
Hehehehehehe
Brenda (32:55.392)
Yeah, that's great. Well, this time I've decided to go the addictions track. Addiction is a topic that has touched my family personally. So I've been on the journey of learning a lot about addictions, but I thought it'd be really good for me to go and just kind of see a little bit about ABC and how you guys are approaching the topic and just continue to add that skill and knowledge in this topic to counsel my own heart, as well as be able to talk with other people. Cause I do counsel a lot in this area, particularly families who are struggling with somebody caught up in the
Shauna Van Dyke (32:59.351)
Okay.
Brenda (33:27.127)
Yes, so one of the things I just want to say is the conference is April 25th through 27th this year. Is that right? I think so. Yep. And we'd love for it's in Fort Worth. We would love for folks to come and meet us there, but they can also do the virtual conference as well. So if you can't make it, then please look at the website and consider signing up virtually. I love the option too, that when you're done, you can buy the whole conference. And if you're like me, I'm really disappointed.
Shauna Van Dyke (33:32.782)
Mm hmm. Yep.
Shauna Van Dyke (33:53.326)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (33:55.506)
I've got all my people going to a different one so then we can get back and debrief, which is really fun. Yes, but it won't be enough. I'll still want to listen to what the other conference speakers had to say. So that's another option is to actually be able to purchase the conference and listen to it as well. But there's nothing like going because I think there is something about getting away from all the things that pull you in your home, in your job, just in your surroundings and to be able to go and to focus.
Shauna Van Dyke (33:58.782)
Yeah, great idea.
Alex (33:59.173)
Hahaha!
Brenda (34:25.165)
You said just that synergy of being with so many people that are excited about Jesus and His Word and about soul care and all the things just really gets you so excited to come back and be like, I want to have an impact in my local church. I want to have an impact in my family, in my neighborhood with the people that God has put in my life to really be able to handle God's Word so well and to do it with such love that people really are helped and really do have hope. And that's how we want to leave people.
to leave people hurting or wanting because of our involvement with them.
Shauna Van Dyke (35:00.118)
Yeah, and that actually brings, that just kind of reminds me, Brenda, of just the fact that like the conference, like when we speak to the speakers, the goal is saying we have a variety of people who are attending and why they're attending. And the goal is to equip so we can become better caregivers, but all the speakers make it very practical. So one of our goals, ABC, that we kind of help, we ask them to do is, hey, make this very practical where some of the breakouts, we've had role, live role plays, we've, you know, had
Brenda (35:27.479)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (35:29.122)
Um, like class discussion. And so it's, it's very tangible where you're going to, it's not this high level to where you're going to walk away and going, Oh gosh, what do I do? But the goal is all the teachers to design it in a way that you can walk away and actually apply it not only to your own heart and life, which we all should do first always, but then how that will naturally overflow to others. And so, you know, the pre-conference is designed specifically for that. So every year.
Alex (35:36.205)
Mm-mm.
Shauna Van Dyke (35:53.686)
we rotate the pre-conference will either be something in the New Testament or Old Testament, and then the preliminary will be the opposite. And so this year we're doing Psalms 119 for the preliminary conference. And then the pre-conference, we're doing counseling through Romans. And so all four the pre-conference speakers have selected a passage of Romans. And they're not just going to be teaching Romans, but they're going to be teaching you how to use this, how to encourage someone and, you know, and who would you specifically encourage by using a passage through Romans?
And then we always do a conference book that ties into the conference or the pre-conference. And so the book has a unique structure. It has many multiple authors, Brenda and Alex actually contributed to this year's book. And so they've taken a Romans passage and they said, Hey, here's kind of a summary of that passage. Here's how you would use this passage in a counseling session. Here's how you would use it for an after session assignment, like a growth assignment. And so you could use that in the vocal counseling world.
Brenda (36:35.724)
Thanks for watching!
Alex (36:37.762)
Hehehehe
Shauna Van Dyke (36:52.29)
But you could use that for yourself, like to walk through the passage yourself to learn, or as you're caring for someone like in your groups at church or a friend. And so that book always is kind of associated with that. So I just wanted to kind of mention that because you guys are actually contributors to this year's book. So thank you all for doing that. Yes.
Alex (36:55.152)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (37:05.652)
Hehehehe
Alex (37:06.309)
Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha. Hmm.
Brenda (37:07.388)
Thank you. Well, thank you for asking us. We were very humbled and privileged. And let me just say too that on the ABC website there are resources. You guys are developing great resources. You're promoting great resources. So if you can't get to the conference and you can't, you know, you're not sure certification, at least go to the website, check out the resources that are there. There'll be some things that will definitely peak your interest there and that could even just be a good entryway into saying what is this about
Alex (37:16.241)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (37:37.202)
a topic where you're struggling, your child's struggling, you know, your husband's struggling, somebody's struggling, that would make you want to really look and say, what does the Bible have to say about this and how could I learn to be better equipped to help?
Shauna Van Dyke (37:49.662)
Yeah, that's a part of our membership. So ABC membership, when you enroll, you get access to all of our past conferences for free, and then you get a lot of homework handouts and things on there. But I could give you all a sneak peek of some of the things that's coming if you want. Like if this is gonna be released for the conference, we just, we released last year five observation videos, which is a video showing a scenario of a counseling session.
Brenda (38:04.188)
Yes! Yeah.
Alex (38:04.242)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Shauna Van Dyke (38:17.186)
And instead of taking you through a full like 10 sessions of a counseling session, we honed in on a specific area of counseling, like so sharing the gospel and counseling or using scripture and counseling. And so we've invited people like Brad Hamburg and Eliza Huey and Lee Lewis and to, to lead out in that. But we've just recorded five more that will be released at the conference. So there's 10, uh, observation videos that you can watch. One's actually caring, uh, for someone who's struggling in suicidal thoughts.
And what's sweet about these videos, if anybody, if there's a counselor out there that want to kind of see some of these live, is these aren't scripted. So we intentionally just let the counselor just kind of roll with it, with whatever the counselor brings their way, brings their way. And so you can see that it's very natural and there is, I mean, it's a really sweet thing to see. And so that might be something that you want to look at. Also, Brad Hanbrick is coming out with a new book on counseling commentary.
So it's actually in print. This is the first one in print. It'll be launching at the conference. And so he's done a counseling commentary on Philippians that we released last year. And this year, him and Marilyn wrote one on the book of James. And so that will be at the conference that we'll release. And then we have tons of other books being written and Jonathan Holmes has a caring for marriage video series. It's on the website. So if you're wanting to learn how to better care for marriages, you can check that out on our website as well. So yeah.
Brenda (39:17.612)
Hmm?
Brenda (39:44.372)
That's so exciting.
Wow, I can remember back when I first started counseling, there were just a few cassette tapes and a few little pamphlets and one or two little booklets. I mean, literally that was it 20 years ago. And so it's just exciting to see the accessibility and all the great minds, you know, just all of Jesus's people coming together and the way God has gifted people and all of these resources coming together to equip the saints to be better for the work of ministry. That's right, that's right.
Alex (39:45.871)
Hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (39:51.975)
haha
Alex (39:52.081)
Exactly.
Alex (39:57.946)
Ha ha!
Shauna Van Dyke (40:11.49)
So what you're saying is we have no excuse. The access that we have to our resources nowadays, we have no excuse.
Alex (40:15.117)
We don't. We don't. That is true.
Brenda (40:16.718)
We really don't. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to put in one last plug before we wrap this up. And that is just to say that the CCF conference is coming to Chattanooga in October. And I know, Shawna, you'll be coming to Chattanooga for that. And hopefully Alex will too. And Malia lives here. So hopefully she's coming with me as well. But just that would be another opportunity if you're in the sound of, you know, around the Chattanooga area, which I know with Alex being in Montgomery, me being in Chattanooga,
Alex (40:21.458)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Shauna Van Dyke (40:27.882)
Yeah. I know. Yes.
Shauna Van Dyke (40:47.327)
Yeah.
Brenda (40:50.998)
our listeners are coming from these places. So that's just another opportunity to come and I guess ABC is kind of the little sister if you would say to CCEF. So see you here.
Shauna Van Dyke (40:58.986)
Yes, yes, we are. And one of the reasons why we have ours in April is so our people can attend, our counselors can attend both and we can also attend it. And so Jeremy and I will definitely be there and we just love it. We went to actually the last one on trauma and we're so excited about this one too. So let's plan to have dinner or something.
Alex (41:00.251)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (41:05.293)
Ah, mm-hmm.
Alex (41:09.239)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (41:17.837)
That's what you need to. Mm-hmm.
Brenda (41:17.952)
Definitely, we will definitely get together for sure. Well, Shana, we just wanna say thank you again, just personally for who you are and the way you've allowed the Lord to use you and lead you and some of the places you've had to step out with courage and be really bold, we're just really thankful for you. And we are very thankful, it really has meant so much to us for you to be such a big supporter for Alex and I and what we're doing and the ministry context God has given us and that's just obvious and demonstrated by the fact that
Shauna Van Dyke (41:35.311)
Thank you.
Alex (41:41.042)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (41:42.765)
Yes.
Brenda (41:48.066)
four weeks of sickness you still showed up today and met with us. So yeah, yeah. We're very thankful that you're well and that you could meet us today but we look forward to seeing you in April. It'll really just be a few weeks away and we just want to again encourage our listeners to get to know your organization and to come to the come to the conference and see us. We'd love to see them. Sure, sure.
Alex (41:51.119)
That's right.
Shauna Van Dyke (41:52.391)
I know! Happy to be alive. Happy to be alive. Thank you.
Alex (41:54.597)
Hahaha
Shauna Van Dyke (42:10.982)
Yeah. Can I say one final thing to your listeners? So, you know, one of the things that I was thinking of as we were talking here is, you know, just knowing podcasts just has a wide reach and just not knowing who's actually listening to this podcast right now. I just wanted to encourage if there might be a woman or man out there who just feels so alone and they're called a counsel.
Alex (42:14.675)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (42:33.578)
You know, I started in 2014 when I got called to council, it was literally me and my husband and we live in Texas where there's mega churches on every corner, like a McDonald's. And so, and we were starting out having the conference, the conversation of local counseling. And so the pastors and elders, when we would meet with just didn't understand like what this was and what we were kind of pushing of wanting to bring care into the church.
Alex (42:48.026)
Hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (42:57.118)
when in our mind and heart, this felt like common sense. This felt like exactly what scripture was calling us to. And so we were so at odds just trying to push that through. And so one of the things we had to do initially is in launching our counseling ministry is model it for the churches around here. Like this is what it really looks like. And then as cases started to arise in their church and we helped, we became equipped to be able to support them in that those partnerships were built.
Alex (43:00.74)
Yeah.
Alex (43:12.987)
Mm-hmm.
Shauna Van Dyke (43:22.79)
And so I have just literally seen not only in my own life, but in just other churches that I worked with, the power of one person and how God can use one person to have that, to start that conversation, to maybe lead out and being the only person getting equipped in biblical counseling or attending the conferences on their own to where three years later they have 30 people coming to our conference. And so if, if you happen to be that listener where you're just that one person, I just want to encourage you just to keep pressing in.
Alex (43:22.893)
Mm-mm.
Alex (43:30.535)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (43:43.884)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (43:45.117)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (43:51.711)
Yeah.
Shauna Van Dyke (43:51.734)
to do what God puts in front of you as far as growing in your call to counsel and to care for others in the church and just watch God work, watch him do what only he can do and bringing new relationships and support around you. And so just don't be discouraged by being that one person. Consider it a great gift and be encouraged to what God can do in and through you. Okay, yeah. All right, ladies.
Alex (44:01.199)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (44:05.563)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (44:11.793)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (44:15.724)
That's a good word.
Brenda (44:17.62)
That is a good word. Thanks, Shawna. Good to see you. We'll see you in April. God bless. Bye bye.
Shauna Van Dyke (44:20.85)
You too. Okay, you too. Bye bye.
Alex (44:23.949)
Bye.