Season 3 Episode 3

 Hi, I'm Alex. And I'm Brenda. Welcome to Conversational Counseling or Counseling and Discipleship. Meet. If we're going to care for someone, we have to be present with them, but it's not just being a body in the room. It's really being present. It is being in the present, which means engaging with another person.

It's um, It's being an embodied presence so that they feel like they're in the presence of Christ.

Brenda, today we're gonna talk about the Ministry of Presence. This is season three, episode three, and we're talking about personal ministry and we're talking about different elements of personal ministry. And the first one, we. Today is the Ministry of Presence, and we wanted to just remind people of what we keep saying.

We think this is the most important thing to remember, that all good ministry is an overflow of our personal ministry with Jesus. And so as we spend time with him in the everyday moments of life, then we minister to others in the everyday moments of life. Yeah. So, you know, conversational counseling is not about making professional counselors, it's just helping all of us look at our spheres of influence and hopefully become more confident and competent in not only how what we say or what we do, but how we go about doing it.

So, Yeah, when we talk about presence, it really does seem so simple. It's so obvious. I would say we can't miss it, and yet we often do because really it literally means just to show up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so we talked about the fact that these things are deceptive because they seem simple, but they're not always easy.

But if we're going to care for someone, we have to be present with them. And so, um, we wanna, you know, kind of remember like. These, uh, studies they did on infants who are unable to survive without the presence of other people. And so we were born dependent creatures and that never changes. We think. I think we have a, a very, um, bad belief, especially as Americans, that as we gr get older, we don't need people as much when in fact, I think we, we may need them more.

Yeah, I think about, I love this. Um, I got this from Kurt Thompson. He said, we come into the world looking for someone who's looking for us. Oh, no. Love that. I think that's so beautiful and it's so true and I don't think that ever changes. Um, I think that we go throughout our lives wondering who's looking.

At us who's looking after us, who's in our corner for us. And we've been talking about how all these ministry elements or components, um, are really the same way that God enters into, you know, into our lives as well. And here's the bottom line, Alex, if you don't show up, you can't do a darn thing, right? So at the very least, we have to be willing to show up.

Um, and you know, I think that when we think. Showing up like, God, God loves what? Um, my friend Marty likes to call chutzpah, um, zeal passion. People who are, are willing to move forward even if they don't always get it right. And we see that so often with the Old Testament characters, don't we? I mean, we see it in the lives of all kinds of different people in the Bible that they weren't like the people I would've necessarily picked for the job, right?

But they had chutzpah. They had kind of this zeal, this passion. They weren't afraid. Forward. I remember being in Israel and we were standing on top of this cliff where David and Goliath, the story had taken, uh, place in this, uh, valley, and Marty turned to us and said, you know, David had to pick up that stone.

Put it in the slingshot, whip it around. Mm-hmm. And let it go. And trust that God would find the target. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and so here's this, probably this young man, a little boy, he was that somebody skilled for war, but he took what he had. He showed up, he took what he had and he moved forward and he trusted that God would be in it.

And I think that's what God is calling us to as well. Yeah. We see it over and over again. God just uses people who show up who are. And I think it's good to remind people that it's not just our body being present, although there is so much amazing, uh, study, so many amazing studies right now about neurobiology.

Um, and just what it means to have bodies in the room being together. But it's not just being a body in the room. It's really being present. It is being in the present, which means engaging with another person. It's, um, It's being an embodied presence so that they feel like they're in the presence of Christ.

Like because they are receiving the care, um, for their body and their soul that Christ would give them, that God would give them. And we're able to do that. It reminds me of Philippians too, um, that we are filling up the afflictions of Christ. So filling up what is lacking. Um, in the afflictions of Christ.

Well, there's only one thing lacking in the afflictions of Christ, and that is that he's not beside me right now, like his physical presence is not here. And so we fill up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ by being the hands and feet of Jesus for each other. Amen. Boy, that'll preach. We could just stop right there.

That's, yeah, that's really good. So God expects us to be his presence in the lives of other people. I mean, we who have the Holy Spirit are called to this ministry, and I just was thinking about the power of presence. I had my grandson here for two weeks and. Um, because he's in an unfamiliar place, he doesn't live close by.

When he comes to visit, we start off in the same bed, all snuggled up and um, you know, he has a hard time falling asleep because he's not familiar with the space and there's strange shadows on the wall and there's strange noises for him. And, you know, it was really just, um, really dawned on me the last time I was with him.

It wouldn't matter, Alex, how much I tried to give him like the science of shadows or explain where all the noises were coming from. The only thing that was going to give him comfort, the only thing that was gonna allow him to have peace and go to sleep and rest was my physical presence there. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I don't, do you know what spooning is, Alex? Oh yes, I'm sure you and your husband have spoon. You and your children have spoon and so, you know, you gotta lay on your side like a spoon and you snuggle up behind them. And, um, any rate, it's just the sweetest thing. And I think it was just such a great example to me.

Of just that power. Sometimes words will not do, it wouldn't matter what I'd said. It was just about me being there. The only thing that was gonna make him feel protected and provided for in that moment was my presence. Hmm. Most recently for me, um, was, uh, I think I mentioned having Covid v and I was so grateful.

My family might not have been grateful, but I was grateful that they had it at the same time because I. How difficult to be quarantined away from everyone when you don't feel well, we couldn't do much for each other except one-on-one recliner, one on another, recliner, me on the sofa, and you know, that's it.

Throw me a blanket. Um, can you, can you get me a cup of tea? I mean, that's about it, but just the blessing that we. Sick together and not have to be alone in our misery reminded me that presence is important. Yeah, I think really the whole covid experience highlighted that for all of us, and I think we're gonna continue to see and we are seeing what were the ramifications from.

You know, infants all the way to, um, you know, those who were dying in hospital beds of just not being present. Right. And, um, I pray we will never have to face that in our lifetime or our children's lifetime or our children's children lifetime. Um, but if, if we ever wondered, I think that that may, that was, that was a, that was a hard school to be in.

Right. Um, but, but I don't want us to lose that. You know, we, I think sometimes we as Americans, or at least me as an American, as a person, as a human, I forget quickly. Yes. Um, I tend to forget things like lessons that are important. Um, and I don't wanna do that. You know, I think we have to consider that since we are Christians and we have the Holy Spirit, um, when we are present, we bring Christ to every single situation.

Mm-hmm. And to every person. And his presence is super powerful. Yeah. And I think when we are present in the name of Christ, um, and again, not to say that we gotta be talking Christianese or doing, but we just come and we show up and we're present and we do whatever the Lord has us to do, it really turns an ordinary encounter into something quite extraordinary.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It takes the Ministry of presence. Uh, it just gives it a whole different perspective to think about the presence of God in us going with us into each one of these encounters. And then, and so here we're talking about this. I wanna stop you right there. Yeah. Let's just, I, I, I just wanna stop you right there.

Cause I think that's it. Like, it's, it's holy, it's set apart, it's holy. Mm-hmm. It's set apart. Mm-hmm. And I think we miss that because we're just going every day without. The awareness of God's presence first. Right. Going back to this, like, are we aware of God's presence as we go? Mm-hmm. And then recognizing, yes, this is holy because as we, as we said, we're ambassadors, right?

We go as his ministers. So anyway. Well, I can answer your question and the answer is no. Uh, it really has been study for me for the past year to. Try to come to understand what being in the presence of God means that I can be present, that I can be aware of God's presence with me. And, um, it is one of the hardest things I've tried to do in my Christian life because, you know, for, we're gonna talk about different reasons why, but it's just so, um, one unfathomable, and two, like you said, our lives are just not structured to take in the awareness.

God with us. And so, um, but before we talk about kind of what keeps us from that, I want us to just remember that, um, Something really important that Jesus is both our empowerment and our example of the presence. Sometimes we can so quickly go to just example because it's easy to see that obviously he is Emmanuel God with us.

So he was literally the presence of God with his people. But we forget that He's the empowerment and I, I wanna stop there just for a second because I think it's important for us to remember. That we comfort others because we've received comfort from the Holy Spirit, and, and this is the part I think we, we forget Jesus had to purchase that comfort for us.

Mm-hmm. It comes to us because of his sacrifice. So he purchased for us this Holy Spirit who comforts us so we can comfort others. So there is, he is empowering the whole process of comfort as it flows through us. And the only way that we are going to ever be willing to move towards another and take the risk that it is because it is risky to move towards other people.

It is risky to be present. And the only way we're gonna be willing to do that is if we remember that we are safe in Christ that he has, he has born our sin and he has born our shame, and we are loved and accepted and beloved in him. And no one can take that away from us. No one can take him from his hand.

And so we can move out into risk with other people and be present with them because he empowers us to do that. Mm-hmm. Well, I love that point because, um, being loved is what drove Jesus in his ministry. Mm-hmm. That he was completely secure in God's love for him when God said, you are my beloved son. He never forgot it.

We, we forget it. Right. And a lot of times it's just so paralyzing for us, uh, to move out toward other people because we forget that. But really it was the foundation of his trust in the father. And that love allowed him to face the greatest ministry challenge of all time. And that was the cross. Mm-hmm.

And so that same empowerment that he has, It's the same empowerment. We also have that God has looked on us because of Christ and said, Alex, you're my beloved daughter, Brenda. You're my beloved daughter, Malia. You're my beloved daughter. You're my sons and you're my daughters. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful and I love that.

That God did that for Jesus at the very beginning of his ministry. Mm-hmm. And at his baptism. And then I was reminded recently at the Transfiguration. Yeah. Which is, which is mid to end, you know, nearing the end of his ministry. He says it again, this is my beloved son. Listen to him is what he says. But it's this beautiful reminder to Jesus of his belovedness.

Um, and because he is about to face the cross. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. Well, in the cross we definitely see the best example of the cost of presence, the cost of ministry that Jesus sacrificed himself to be present. Um, a lot of us are familiar with the Philippians too, you know, that he leaves heaven, that he didn't have that, he didn't thank himself to be equal with God, but he, um, came and he humbled himself.

And I think it is so much in Christ's humanity, I think we miss Christ's humanity a lot. Mm-hmm. But when we're talking about personal ministry, Like, this is where we need to really study the humanity of Christ. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, you know, we, we know that presence, personal ministry, just presence starts with death, uh, to self.

Cuz we're gonna be asked to sacrifice. There's going to be sacrifice if we are going to allow ourselves to be used by God in the lives of other people. And, um, one of the things we also see in the cross is just that the cross is. Is God's provision and protection for us. You know, we see all throughout the scriptures really.

We see how God's presence means his protection and his provision as well. And so as we begin to think about what does it look like to enter into places and spaces where we can minister to people, um, It's gonna take, it's going to take being empowered by him to die to ourselves. Yeah. So that we can give our lives away for other people.

Yeah. Recently our, um, Sunday school class, our women's Sunday school class studied Paul Miller's, um, part of his love walked among us, specifically the compassion of Jesus. And it was a beautiful study because it zeroed just in on the compassion of. And, um, and I think we see even within that, like how his example of presence was fleshed out.

So I'm gonna read Luke's part of Luke seven 11 through 15 because I think it, um, It. Paul Miller, just over and over again just showed us as he walked through the gospels, how Jesus showed up and, and this is gonna illustrate the model. So this is Luke seven 11 through 15. It says soon afterwards, Jesus went with his disciples to the village of Nain and a large crowd followed him.

A funeral procession was coming out as he approached the village gate. The young man who had died was a widow's only son and a large crowd from the village was with. When the Lord saw her, his heart overflowed with compassion. Don't cry, he said. Then he walked over to the coffin and touched it and the bearer stopped.

Young man, he said, I tell you, get up. Then the dead boy sat up and began to talk, and Jesus gave him back to his mother. Great fear swept the crowd and they praise God saying a mighty prophet has risen among us and God has visited his people today. And the news about Jesus spread throughout Judea and the surrounding countryside.

It's just, this is one of those accounts, Brenda, that I think is so easy to just read through so quickly. Mm-hmm. And not even really pause to think about what's going on, but I think we see something really beautiful. And this is the model that Paul Miller, um, illustrates. He says that Jesus saw the woman.

And then he was moved towards compassion towards her, and then he moved towards her. Mm-hmm. So he saw the woman, he had compassion on the woman, and then he moved towards the woman. And it seems, again, so simple, but when we think about what it takes to really see people, And then allow ourselves to be moved with compassion.

Their sacrifice right there. There's sacrifice in seeing someone because we have to usually slow down what our priority is. Mm-hmm. There's sacrifice in letting ourselves be moved with compassion, being touched with the suffering of another person, and then there's sacrifice in acting on that, compassion and moving towards someone.

But that was really helpful to me to just think of it. Jesus saw her. He was moved, he had compassion towards her and he moved towards her. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alex and I just really was thinking about how God sovereignly puts us, you know, in close proximity to certain people to get a peak into their place of need.

Mm-hmm. So that we can. Be moved to compassion. I think oftentimes that begins with prayer. Mm-hmm. And then a lot of times the Holy Spirit will begin to prompt us, um, if you know, to and lead us to be present in a certain way. And so this very model is like, we have to see people though. And then we have to be moved, like you were saying, I think earlier.

Just like we have to love people sometimes. Um, You know, we don't, we don't love people. It's just mm-hmm. Uh, we, we love all the other things, but not people. Um, and the other thing I just wanna say about this particular incident is, of course, this presence of Jesus completely changed the life of the young man and his mama, but it had a ripple effect.

Mm-hmm. And that's true in our presence too. You know, our good works glorify our father in heaven. And so oftentimes when we're showing up, it might not even. It's certainly not only for the people who are present, but it might not be for them at all. Sometimes it might be for somebody else and how they are going to see God in that situation.

Yeah. Yeah. Great point. Well, we wanted to spend the rest of our time just talking about a few things that we've seen in our own lives that keeps us from being present. So it was a little confession. We do a lot of confessing on this podcast. Have you noticed that? Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. It's, it's good for us, isn't it?

It. Yeah. So the first one is just selfishness. Um, and I think this could be, um, you know, with our time, with our resources, uh, there's a, there's, there's ways I think as we look at all of these things that keep us from being present, some of them are more like inward, kind of our hearts posturing and others are just like, out, out of us, like circumstantial maybe.

Um, but I know for me, It's just really easy for me to be self-absorbed with my own life and my own problems and my own. And me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. I, I, I. And so, um, you know, sometimes I just need to look up mm-hmm. And I need to see who's around me and I need to pay attention to what I'm paying attention to.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then the other thing is I just think, um, you know, I. Like, I'm probably not too, as different as a lot of people either I can get really involved with my work or just entertainment, wanting to check out. And so again, these become really kind of self-focused. It's, it's my time. I've worked hard.

I'm scrolling on my phone, social media. Um, I tried Wordle, by the way. I think my husband got 46, right? I couldn't get three right in a row. I quit. I was, I'm terrible at it. I'm terrible. Um, but I do like solitaire and I can beat that one every once in a while. Uh, but, you know, some of these things that just kind of keep me in my own little safe, protective circle mm-hmm.

Um, and other people at bay, because quite frankly, I just don't wanna be disturbed. Right. I don't wanna come outside of that. Yeah. And sometimes that selfishness is intentional or, um, Chosen, but sometimes that is it. It's the fact that our lives haven't left any space or any margin to reach out to people.

It takes time to be present in people's lives, and so we have to create space. Um, not just time to be with a person, but also time to have the emotional energy, the relational capacity to be with other people, which means we're gonna have to declutter both our inner and outer man. And we've been, we've been saying like, Be with Jesus in order to be with people.

But, um, it also means that we may have to really rethink our priorities. We, we, we might need to say no to some things. We might need to say no to some good things. Yeah, I think about that a little cliche, like sometimes the good is the enemy of the great. And um, sometimes there's just some good things that have to go if we're gonna be more present in people's lives.

Yeah. Do you remember that little Japanese lady, Marie Kdo, who's like the queen of declutter? Yes. I love, she always talks about only keeping those things that speak to the heart and discard, you know, discarding items that don't give you, you know, don't spark joy. I think that's her big thing about sparking joy.

Mm-hmm. I. Um, but I think there's just some real value and wisdom, uh, in terms of how we think about our time and, um, our, and I like what you said, it's not just our physical time, but it's our mental space. It's one of the things, I mean, really even when I look at ministry in the family mm-hmm. Um, your children and your husband, It's, it's a lot of times people are just so busy.

They don't even have the mental, it takes, it takes a lot of work to build relationships. It takes a lot of work and time to work through issues and for you to change and for, uh, you to live in community at peace with other people. And I, Marie Conda says we should be choosing what we want to keep, not what we want to get rid of.

Hmm. And I think that's really good because I think if we have a scarcity mentality, like I have to start getting rid of all these things, we'll immediately be. Nope, not doing it. Mm-hmm. But if we can flip that the other way and say, wow, what are the best things? Mm-hmm. What are the truly good things? What are the things that God says I shouldn't be letting go of?

And let's get excited about those things. And of course, you know, it's mostly going to be people. The only two things that are gonna last. Forever are the word is the word of God in the souls of men. Hmm. And so those are the two things we really need to be about getting to know God and the souls of men.

You know, Brenda, I actually think here is where we should talk about the fact that, um, we're limited because when we are talking about. Um, getting rid of things. We're going to be fa and, and we're gonna be faced with this thing. What are we gonna keep and what are we gonna get rid of? Yeah. We're gonna immediately be faced with the fact that we're limited people.

Yeah. We can't do it all. Yeah. Yes. You're only human. You're only human. And, and, and, uh, you know how sometimes people will pick a word of the year? Um, about two years ago, my word was finite because I really had, and I don't, I'm not saying that I have completely come to grips with this, but I think I am really.

I'm beginning to, to try to come to grips with the fact that I'm finite, that I just have a limited number of resources, a limited number of time, energy, knowledge. Like I just can't go forever. I don't have a, a i, I don't know everything, um, that I have to live life in a fallen state or, or in a finite state.

And here's the thing. God's not surprised by my finiteness. And I think he's actually pleased by it. He created me that way. He doesn't expect me to be infinite, so I think he is pleased when I recognize my own limitations. Yeah, and I think with that, um, being finite means that you're frail as a sufferer and you're falling as a sinner.

Mm-hmm. And those are some limitations as well. Uh, you know, I think we do need to consider our frailty, our season of life. Like how, how much of our own story is impacting how much we can be present for other people. Mm-hmm. Um, sometimes when you're going through something really heavy, I think about a friend of mine, uh, who's just lost two loved ones in a close amount of time, and she was asked to be a part of another grief ministry and she just couldn.

You know, her own, she hasn't even worked through her own story yet. And we had talked early on in one of the previous podcasts about often where we, um, have pain in our lives or struggles will be kind of those areas that will be our platform to preach. But there has to be some healing. Sometimes in those areas, some progress.

Um, and then also just fallen, you know, that we're, we're limited. Um, we can't always find the solution for somebody's problems. In fact, we rarely can. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, you know, we just have to, we have to realize in that way, we're limit. We're not God. Mm-hmm. We're not God, we're not gonna be able to do for somebody what only God can do for them.

And, and we don't need to try and like you said. Mm-hmm. And God's okay with that. God's great with being God and us being human. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that not only we're fallen, but we're dealing with fallen people and we're not always equipped to deal with every situation that comes to us. There are times when it is okay to pass, you know?

Yeah, that's right. I mean that, that there is a space for the Ministry of presence and, and there is a, Um, that that presence is quiet and doesn't speak much and connects people to, uh, places where they can receive appropriate help. So, mm-hmm. It's hard. I think that's a great point is that, um, in those cases we don't have to.

I guess we can point toward presence. Mm-hmm. We can lead. Mm-hmm. We can point, we can lead, we can, I think this is why being a part of the body of Christ is so important because we don't just have to be the only resource, right. For somebody. Mm-hmm. That there are a lot of other resources and people that can step in and help.

I know for me, a big one is just fear. Hmm. Um, because, you know, you oftentimes don't know what to say or afraid you're gonna do the wrong thing if you, if you step in. And, um, there's a young man that my husband and I both know, and, uh, we've just really grown to admire this young man. He's being raised by his grandmother and so the circumstances are very difficult in his life.

Um, but we have just noticed that. So faithful in his work ethic. Mm-hmm. Um, and he's very faithful in how he treats his grandmother. He's really sweet and really respectful. And we've been watching him, we've been noticing, we've been asking the Lord to give us eyes, Alex. Mm-hmm. I think part of this was Israel.

A part of it was us getting, you know, ready for this podcast. Like, Lord, let us see people. Mm-hmm. Let us really see so we can move forward in compassion and you have compassion, and then move forward. Well, it's one of those situations where we, we'd been encouraging with our words, but the Lord was like, do something for him.

Let him really know that I see him. That I see him. Mm-hmm. And so I was like, Lord, I don't know what that's gonna look like. Like I don't even know what a young man would want. And if I give him something, he's gonna think I'm so weird. And then what if, uh, you know, what if he doesn't even like what I give him?

Or what if I insult him? I mean, it's all the what ifs and all the fears. And the Holy Spirit just kept prompting me. And you know how that is, like, you'll keep thinking about something, your heart will race and you'll be like, oh, push, push that down, push that down, push that down. And um, I happened to be at the store and I was kind of just, you know, going through and the Holy Spirit was like, Hey, I, I've been telling you to do something.

To, to tell that so that young man will know I see him. And um, and I don't know if this young man's a believer or not, to be honest with you. Like, God, there's, there's, God loves him and I, and God wants him to know that. And so I'm in the checkout at Walmart. I'm almost escaping this, you know, this just prompting by the Holy Spirit.

I'm like, okay, God, I'll do it. So I reached over and I grabbed a gift card and I ran it through. And it was amazing immediately, like I just felt the pleasure and the joy of the Lord. That little voice that kept prompting me stopped. Mm-hmm. And, um, and we gave it to him and it was so sweet. Like, we basically said, we see you.

Mm-hmm. And it was risky because I was like, he may think we are the biggest weirdos ever. But I was like, who doesn't, you know, who doesn't love a gift card? I mean, that's why I kind of was like, okay, well, well hopefully this will be good. And um, it was so sweet. We were. Say like, we see your faithfulness and God sees your faithfulness and he loves you, and we want you just to know how much we care and you know, if we could ever be of help for you to use.

So anyhow, it turned out to be really sweet. But I just wanna say that I had to overcome like, a lot of the fear. And I think that's partly too, like if we wait too long, when the Holy Spirit is really moving us mm-hmm. Um, we, we, we usually will chicken out. Yeah. Like I think it's better to, I mean, if it's not sin for goodness sakes, if it's loving.

To do? What are we waiting on? Like if you know the Lord's leading you in a way of love, then just step forward and do it. Don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. That is so bad. Mm-hmm. Because that's when the fear set in. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite story about the Ministry of Presence is not me overcoming my fear, but I think my friend overcoming her.

Uh, because I was, my children were young. Elizabeth Ann was in kindergarten and having her end of the year kindergarten party, a luau. And this is, this, was this the rhythm of my life? I woke up that morning and I couldn't move, like I got outta bed and I tried to function and I couldn't function, so I got back into.

And when that happens, I, I really usually for about a day have have a lot of difficulty walking at all. And, um, at that time in my life, I had an oven that had a short in it and it would beep and it would just start beeping randomly in the middle of the night, in the middle of the day. And here I am already upset that I'm missing my daughter's end of the year luau.

Someone's taking care of my four year old and I'm home in the bed and I can't move. And the oven starts to beep. And I thought, Lord, like this is beyond what I can bear. Like I cannot lay here. And once it started, unless you pushed the certain button a certain way, it would keep beeping even for hours. I was like, I can't lay here and listen to that beeping.

So I called my friend, who's also my neighbor, and I said, will you please come turn off my oven and I will never really, as long as I live, forget it. She came in, of course she turned off the oven. She came back to my bedroom and she climbed in my bed beside me. And she didn't, I don't remember one word she said, I don't even know if she talked and she wept with me.

Oh, we both laid in my bed and cried and it was the, it was the most beautiful picture of the ministry of presence of someone really being willing to overcome any fear of like, what do I do with this woman laying in the bed who can't move? And just being willing to literally get where I was mm-hmm. And weave with me.

And, um, it was so comforting to have someone be willing to do that. Hmm. Wow. And that just really flows right into my next thought. And that is that you had a neighbor that you knew. Yes. To call. Yeah. Yeah. Because we live in a very individualistic society. Yeah. Where we value, you know, privacy and we prize our independence and we don't wanna step on people's toes.

And what a beautiful picture. Like were you offended Alex? No, no. You haven't forgotten it. And it is, it is a story still of, of God coming to you through your neighbor mm-hmm. And ministering to you in such a sweet and special way. Yeah. Yeah, and we live in these communities where we, you know, we pull into our driveway, we, we raise our garage door, we pull in, we lower our garage door, and we may never, I mean, I'm as guilty of it as anybody.

Our living space is our backyard. It's no longer the front porch. It's no longer the front yard. And so we just, we literally don't see one another. We don't have our eyes on one another right here where we. But I think we have to remember that we were wounded in community. Most, most of our wounds came from people in community.

And we're gonna experience healing through community. And in order to do that, we are gonna have to be willing to push past our love of privacy, our love of independence, and move towards one another. Yeah, that's really good. You know, we live in downtown Chattanooga, so we don't have any privacy. You don't, you, you live in a front porch community.

Oh, we do. Yeah. But it's also messy, you know? Mm-hmm. I have some teenagers next door, and sometimes I'm having my quiet time at the base mm-hmm. From their music is going and I can hear it. Mm-hmm. And we share, like they're, they have a screened in front porch and we have a screened inside porch, and so we just wave and we wave to the people walking by.

But I will also say in this community, I know when somebody has a baby, I know when there's been a death. I know when somebody goes off to college, um, you know, we, we see what's going on with one another. And so I think it's, um, and you know, we have a lot of people we're in small yards and people are coming through and they have, they walk their dogs, Alex and their dogs really like our nice grass.

And so, you know, there is like all the messiness of the noise and the, you know, everything that comes kind of the intrusion, if you will, of. But, um, I think it's been really good for, for Paul and I to, um, keep us more others oriented, to not feel like we need to be so private and have that so protected our things, our time, our lives.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I think that's just kind of the vision. I, I hope that we can have spiritually as well as, you know, the way we're living. Yeah. So I think we have to go back and just, um, encourage people that if we're going to practice this kind of presence with other people, we are gonna have to practice first, recognizing the presence of God in our daily lives, and that's really what we hope that people will be doing.

Um, throughout the week, one of the ways, um, many years ago, Anne Voskamp wrote 1000 Gifts, you know? Mm-hmm. She about gratitude, but isn't gratitude just being able to see the hand of God in our lives mm-hmm. Every day, um, that we have a posture as we enter our prayer time or reading scripture, that it's not just checking the box.

It's not the next thing we do. It's not just quiet time. It is time. God, it is time in the presence of God that, um, I think it's good for us to meditate on the times that God has shown up for us. Mm-hmm. You know, to look back on our lives and remember the times that God has really shown up. I think one of my favorite.

Women's retreats in the car on the way up, we started just sharing times when we really, literally felt the supernatural presence of God with us. Now we're Presbyterian women, so we don't always talk about this, right? But it was beautiful. Everybody's a little bit afraid to say like, but I felt their presence of God that day in my car or in.

This situation, but what an encouragement when we can meditate on the, on the places that God has shown up and we have felt his presence. And then we've talked about it, um, before in this series, just that we carry on this ongoing conversation with God throughout the day. That our relationship with him becomes like relationship with people in our family.

And so it becomes natural to bring him into the activities we're doing, to talk to him about the things that are taking place in our lives. And in that way, we recognize that he is always with us. So we just hope that people will be able to focus on ways that they can practice the presence of God this week, and then ask the Lord how they can be present for other people.

Who is the person that they need to see and feel compassion towards and move towards this week? And in what ways might they want to serve that person, minister to their needs, whether it. Just sitting or whether it's sitting and serving in some way. You mentioned cleaning a house for someone or bringing a gift, but, um, who is the Lord calling us to incarnate the presence of Christ to this week?

Yeah. Well, I think, um, this is a good place for us to end, Alex, this podcast. I know that the next time we meet, we'll be talking about the ministry of listening and um, so thank you for listening and we look forward to meeting again.