Season 2 Episode 1

Hi, I'm Alex. And I'm Brenda. Welcome to Conversational Counseling where counseling and discipleship meet. When we're talking about forgiveness, what we are, what we are saying at its very essence is just the way God has not paid me back. I'm not gonna pay you back for, we're not in bondage anymore. We're not in prison.

We're not alone. We're able to move into relationships and. And have a, I think a beauty and a flourishing in those relationships that we can't have apart from Christ

season two or as we were just praying a minute ago, made me think it's really offering to of our podcast. Conversational counsel counseling. Absolutely. Because this feels like so much of an offering of just obedience and sacrifice to the Lord and try not to make it about us. That's right. So this season we are gonna do something different than we did last season, and that is last season.

We. Tried to create a framework for these conversations. Try to give tools and structures to help think through approaching people and talking to them. And this season we're gonna land on a topic, the topic of forgiveness, because it's something that we have a lot of questions about. We see the need for in our own lives, and we talk to a lot of people about, so this season is called, it's bigger than, Yeah, and we pick that title to be a little bit provocative because I think as Christians you might think, well, what could possibly be bigger than forgiveness?

Mm-hmm. But I would say it depends on where we put the emphasis, because we could say it's bigger than forgiveness or it's. Bigger than forgiveness, but we're saying it's bigger than forgiveness. Mm-hmm. And so now we have to be able to define the it's or what is, what is bigger than forgiveness. Mm-hmm.

And I think, you know, one of the things we run into as we are counseling, um, people is that so often forgiveness. Is equated with complete repair and restoration of relationships. Mm-hmm. And so what we'd like to do in this podcast is break it down, um, a process that, you know, oftentimes happens as a process, but also happens as an event.

But help to make sense of what does it really mean to bring about forgiveness, um, whether we're receiving it or whether we're extending the forgiveness, and then how does that really impact our relationships, our, our part of obedience and even the reconciliation and restoration of relationships. Yeah.

I'm really glad we're gonna do this, Brenda, because as I've thought about it, I just, I really have run into. Everywhere I go. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. I really have it. And I, mm-hmm. And I, I know I'm aware of it because we're doing this, but I really have seen a again and again, like the need to slow down and think through things, and particularly think through the area of forgiveness in my own life.

So, big picture overview, it's gonna look like we're, we're gonna do, um, the RS because we love alliteration. We do. And so we're gonna do six Rs and it's gonna be, Remember and release. And then we'll do this brief little interlude podcast where we talk about whether we choose to overlook or confront an offense because there does seem to be this place where we're gonna make a decision when we've been sinned against, or, um, hurt.

And then we're gonna talk about reconciliation and restoration. Yeah. And um, I do wanna say that we have a handout, um, that's accessible, that'll be in the show notes for this as well, with scriptures that we'll be supporting each of these. You know, there's a lot of different views on forgiveness and reconciliation of restoration and, um, we're not necessarily saying that our way is the only way.

Or is the way, but it is a way that we have come to think about forgiveness and reconciliation and repair, even when there can't be restoration in a relationship. And so we're hoping that this is gonna be really helpful and I will have to say if anybody can come up with an R for our overlook or confront, I would really like for them to let us know because it does bother me that we don't have an R right there, but I'll get over it.

Um, and. Move past it. But Alex, let's just talk a little bit about why, why forgiveness even matters. Um, I mean, I think, you know, we know it, but then I think we need to be reminded of it. Yeah. We say things like, forgiveness is the heart of the gospel, but what does that really mean? Mm-hmm. I think first it means we re we're recognizing that.

Our greatest need is to be, uh, reconciled to God. And so we need, uh, the forgiveness that Jesus offers us in order to be in right relationship with God. But then we also recognize that if we're gonna live two minutes in this life, we are either going to be hurting someone or be hurt by someone. And so we're going to need to either receive forgiveness from others or know how to extend it to others.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's really important that we start, and this is why we're starting with receiving, because it's really important that we understand that in receiving God's forgiveness, it really orients us. Mm-hmm. Or, or reorients us toward, um, the right way of not only thinking, but living out the gospel in real relationships.

Um, God is the one that has set the parameters for forgiveness. He's given the promises to us that we've bend down to others. And, um, the power that we're going to need, because at the end of the day, forgiveness is really supernatural. Mm-hmm. And so we're going to have to be dependent on the Holy Spirit and we're gonna talk more about that and unpack it.

But, you know, we, we talked about we're giving six, six episodes or, um, to, to this particular season. And I think it would just be good to talk a little bit about as we're going throughout the day, where are we hearing conversations, um, in our personal lives and maybe in our professional ministry lives where.

The issue of forgiveness is really important. Where is it coming up? Where do, where do you see it some in your own life and as you're meeting with people? Well, for when we're recording this, we just come off a holiday. So I think about anytime we are in fam, family gatherings. Mm-hmm. Holidays are gonna be times where we see relational conflict.

Mm-hmm. So I actually see a lot of uptick in people coming to see me right before the holidays. Right before a major family event. Graduations. Mm-hmm. Mother's Day, father's Day, those things, because people are anticipating the difficulty of those family relationships. That's a really good point. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the things that, um, we see just throughout our lives is how much we struggle with guilt and shame.

Mm-hmm. Um, when we've sinned against someone else, or how hard it is if somebody sinned against us and they're dealing with guilt and shame. And so that's one of the enemy's greatest tools is to use guilt and shame, not only to separate us from God, but also to separate us from one another. Yeah. And then over the years I've, the past few years I've done a lot of work in story work and looking at, uh, our past things that have come up, past hurts and families and things like that.

And so there's also just a conversation around what does it look like as we examine our own story and understand ways that we've been hurt, uh, whether we've had abuse or trauma or just woundings and that we have to apply forgiveness even to the past. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know there's a, a lot more we could even say about that.

And we will continue to just unpack, um, you know, as we move forward, the kind of conversations. But I think the most important thing is that this is a regular and ongoing conversation, and it should be for the Christian. And you know, a lot of times I'll have people ask me, what are the, what's the greatest issue that you mm-hmm.

That you deal with in counseling? And, um, I would say, this is it. Wouldn't you, like this is going to come up with every person you meet with if they're coming in for. There's gonna be issues of forgiveness. Mm-hmm. If they're coming in about anxiety, there's gonna be issues of forgiveness. You know, they're coming in with fear, they're coming in with what, whatever is presenting itself.

Um, there is going to be a vertical and oftentimes a horizontal aspect. And by that I mean an issue where the person is needing vertically to have, um, be at peace with God and to receive God's forgiveness and ask for forgiveness. But also, um, horizontally that there is forgiveness granted or received on that level as well.

Yeah. And it's a complex issue. It's a really hard thing to understand. I think it's, um, there's a lot of confusion about it. I think we've even seen in our own teaching and our own growth that. That we've changed or we've nuanced our understanding of forgiveness, and that's why we wanna go so slow through these podcasts.

But there are a lot of maybe myths or common misconceptions about forgiveness. Yeah. And I think one of the biggest ones that, you know, we hear is forgiveness means forgetting. Yeah. Oh, first and foremost. Yeah. If you, you know, if you forgive me, then you'll forget. Mm-hmm. And that, that means then the implications of that is that there must be reconciliation and trust granted.

Right. Right. And so that's something we're really gonna be delving into is forgiveness, forgetting, and if you forgive someone, does that mean that you're bound to be reconciled or restored? Because what if that's not even possible? What if the person doesn't want to reconcile? So spoiler forgiveness is not forgetting, right?

That's right. Forgiveness is not forgetting. And it's also not reconciling and necessarily trusting, but we're gonna talk more about that. What else do you see as a myth? Yeah, I think it goes back to the, we, we join that if we forgive somebody, we have to feel it. Like I have to feel forgiving to them. Um, I have to feel a renewed affection, a desire to be in relationship, and then I can, then I can go ahead and forgive.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good one. And here's one. You know, I think that we understand what people mean by this, but a lot of times, Somebody might say to us, I, I just can't forgive myself. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I'm just holding onto this. And I think that feeling is, is that the person is still struggling with guilt and shame, even though they've asked for forgiveness.

Mm-hmm. But this idea of forgiving ourselves really has more to do with the fact that we need to accept appropriate, remember? In the gospel, how much we are loved, how much we have been forgiven, that Christ has paid it all. Mm-hmm. And so really I've done nothing to it, you know, to satisfy the penalty for my sin.

Christ has already done that, but, um, that can produce a lot of guilt and shame and just ongoing kind of paralysis if I'm always feeling like I've gotta. But I don't know how to do that. And, um, we're gonna be talking, uh, you know, next, um, episode a lot about remembering, and I think this is where remembering God's forgiveness really becomes key for us.

Yeah. And then the, uh, another one I see Brenda, is people tend to think this is especially true when I talk to women who have had a lot of abuse and trauma in their background, and they think that forgiving a perpetrator, for example, Is condoning their behavior. Like I'm saying, it's okay if I've forgiven you and that is not the case.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I can even see that, you know, in my relationships, even with my family members that, well, I don't want him to think I'm okay with that. Mm-hmm. That was not right. Mm-hmm. Or I don't want my, my child to think that that's okay, that she can go do that again. And I think that, you know, we can run into that, um, way of thinking that it's condoning and it's just not, and, um, again, we're gonna get to what it is in just a second.

Mm-hmm. But we wanna talk about some of the things it's not, and, and one of the things is, is that, um, forgiveness happens immediately if it's genuine. And you know, you've, I've heard women that I've met with say, well, my husband says I haven't forgiven him because I haven't forgotten. Mm-hmm. It's not genuine.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I'm still hurt by it or I still want to talk about it. Mm-hmm. And so I think there is a misconception that if it's genuine, that it will be immediately dealt with and that it doesn't have to be dealt with again. Right. And we want to kind of unmask some of these myths and maybe talk about what we have found to be a better way.

Mm. To handle these kind of situations. Definitely more comprehensive and not so, um, formulaic. I think that's the word I'm thinking of. Like, we wanna remove the id, even though we have our Rs, we wanna remove the idea that there's a formula of forgiveness and think more about, uh, the way that we process through it and walk through it.

Yeah, I think that's so good. Um, well, let's talk about how the Bible defines forgiveness, because God really does set the parameters for what forgiveness is and why it's even needed. Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, one of the things that we, we can really know from the scripture is that forgiveness is a firm defined as canceling of a debt.

Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we all have a debt to pay to the Lord that we can't pay, um, because he is. Sovereign, he is holy. And then here we come and we offend a sovereign and holy God. And so we can't even begin to cancel our own debt. And so, um, we've had to rely on someone else to pay the debt because the wages of sin is death, is what the scripture says.

So we actually should pay with our lives. I just wanna stop on, on that point for just a minute, because I think that's really, really important is we begin to think about what it would look like to forgive our neighbor. Mm-hmm. Um, that there's a debt we owe and that debt would be our very life. Mm-hmm.

And yet because of what Christ has done, because he paid that debt, we don't have to. Um, but we talked about how sin creates the. And so we need to, I think we need to define what sin is. Mm-hmm. Right? And sin is, I maybe simply put, it's missing the mark of God's two greatest commandments in a, in kind of a big picture way.

It's not loving God or loving our neighbor In all the ways the Bible describes that, you know, from Genesis to Revelation, what sin is not is. Um, my preference, my matters of conscience or wisdom. And, um, I think this is really important because so often when we get our feelings hurt, um, it can feel like somebody has sinned against me if they hurt my feelings.

And sometimes they have, and sometimes they have, right? Mm-hmm. But, um, forgiveness is really required. The debt is really there when there is an actual commitment of sin. Mm-hmm. And I think that's important as we are. Um, Managing or maneuvering or involved with relationships that we are able to identify again, we can go to somebody if they hurt our feelings.

There's nothing wrong with that. But to go to someone and say they have sinned against us, um, you know, then we really need to know, well, what is sin? As God defines it. Yeah, I think that's gonna be another really nuanced part of the discussion, Brenda, because sometimes people will say, well, how did I sin against you?

And they're talking about sins of CO and not omission, that sometimes there's just a lack of love in our treatment of other people that we need to be willing to lean into. So we're even gonna give some practical tools of like how to have that conversation of like, something's not right in this relationship and I wanna.

It, but I'm not really sure. I wanna confront someone in their sin and so mm-hmm. I think, again, this is gonna take a lot of, uh, walking into some tension and some nuance and being willing to sit in some places that we would like to be easy and cut and dry. And it's not always that way. Yeah. And I think it really goes back to, um, Being very connected in our own relationship with the Father and through the Holy Spirit.

Having the wisdom of God's word, the discernment, the under, taking the time to understand people and circumstances and not just rushing forward either to avoid or to jump in, you know, too quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the things that sin does, In our walk with the Lord is it, it separates and it even, you know, when before we were Christians, we were enemies right?

Before we, we received God's initial forgiveness. In salvation. We were enemies of the Lord and um, and we were separated from him. And so, One of the things that we can know is that sin separates us from people that we love. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, there's a lot of talk about personality testing and I think all of that's really fun, and I like all the, the personality testings that's out there, but, um, what really separates you from somebody is not a difference in your personality.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But it's sin that separates every personality can be, be. You know, when it is, um, conformed to the image of Christ. And so, yeah, I just think that when we talk about this area of, um, forgiveness and separation, We just want to remember, um, again, this, this idea that we have been forgiven by God and we are no longer separated.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, to him. And so we were, again, all of these ways we relate to God and he relates to us. We're wanting to bend down to other people. Right. And I love, you know, go back to our question. It's, um, it's bigger than forgiveness. And, and remember, I love Elise Fitzpatrick. I always think of her doing this thing about double amputation, big theological word.

And she makes it so simple. And, and what she says is we're really quick to remember that, um, forgiveness is, is part of the gospel. Like just as if I've never sinned. Yep. Coming and just as if I've always obeyed. Right. And we forget the second part. Yeah. So it's just as if I've never sinn us forgiveness.

Yeah. But just as if I've always obeyed, is the crediting of Christ's righteousness to us. That's the double amputation. We didn't just, our debt wasn't just canceled, we were actually credited with his righteousness. And I think that we, we don't need to remember the theological term, but we have to remember the concept that it's both things together.

Because what it means is we. Stand at a zero balance before God. We actually stand seen in Christ's righteousness. We stand perfect and complete in Christ. And only from that place can we even begin to enter into a conversation like forgiving others because frankly, I don't wanna forgive other people.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it hurts too much. There's a debt, right? Yeah. And there's a lot of risk in moving into a relationship, and so I have to first orient myself vertically to who God is and to the fact that. I can move into those relationships and I can risk those things because I'm already forgiven. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I think that if, if there was one thing I was gonna say on this podcast that I would not want people to forget, it is this idea of pardon. Mm-hmm. That when we're talking about forgiveness, what we are, what we are saying at its very essence is I will not hold. Your debt against you. I will not pay you back for the wrong you have done to me.

And you know, when Jesus prayed, forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors. I mean, there's an acknowledgement that it's cost something. Mm-hmm. If somebody sins against you, it has cost you something. And so there is a real debt. There is something that has really happened there. But all we're saying in forgiveness is, I am not gonna pay you back for the wrong you have done to me.

Mm-hmm. And. I just think that's really like, if we could just hold onto that one thought, because when we say it's bigger than forgiveness, that's what we're saying. It's like forgiveness is the starting point, right? Of restoration in relationships. But what we are really just stating in that fact is just the way God has not paid me back.

I'm not gonna pay you back. Yeah, so you mentioned that this, uh, conversation on forgiveness has made you think about this illustration from Shawshank Redemption. Yeah, it's one of my favorite shows. Well, ands lucky you because you can turn on the TV any Sunday afternoon and it's plaguing. I've noticed. I love red.

Um, you know, one of the prisoners that's there, and I love one of these, these lines that he says, you can get busy living or you can get busy dying. Yeah. That should be like your bumper stick. I know. I love it. So let's get busy living. You know, as much as I love to play, this is true. Um, yeah. I just think that the reason I love it so much is I think it's a great illustration throughout the this show.

If you haven't seen the movie D. Prisoners are being put on parole. But even the first guy that we see that gets, um, out mm-hmm. On parole, um, he doesn't, he doesn't operate as a free man and he kills himself. Mm-hmm. And then red eventually gets out. And so I think kind of the whole picture is, is we have been made free, but we can come into our freedom still acting like we're in prison.

Still having the mindset of the prisoners still wanting the, the rules and the regulations, and really kind of to live under law to live under. Yeah, I think just a structure of, of law and not grace. And then when we do that, it destroys us, but it also destroys the people around us. Mm-hmm. And I think the way I see that playing out in relationships in particular in this area of forgiveness is we live in a, when, when we live still in the bondage to the idea that I can't, uh, hurt other people.

I don't wanna risk in relationships, so I don't wanna move into relationship versus really living freely and saying, okay, like we said before, I've receiv. This, pardon from God, all my debt is canceled and I'm credited with Christ righteousness. Now I can move into relationship and I can risk two things.

I can risk hurting you because I know that God's forgiven me so I can take a risk. This one's really hard for me. It's actually harder for me to risk hurting you than for me to rescue hurting me. Mm-hmm. And I think it goes back to some of my perfectionism and everything and I that I. I've really realized over the past few years that I've come to believe that if I hurt you and I am wrong, you cannot love me.

Mm-hmm. And so the only way I'm gonna be willing to move into relationship with you, um, is to be able to say, okay, the love of God. Is pure and true, and it is for me at all times in Jesus. And I'm forgiven. I am right, um, in Christ. And so I can risk hurting you, and I can risk you being upset with me and you coming and telling me that I've wronged you.

I can risk all of that because I know that about who I am in Christ. So we're gonna, we're we're gonna. Hurting other people, but then we're also gonna risk being hurt by others. Mm-hmm. And so in that place, we're really recognizing that when we're hurt by others, because we've learned to receive forgiveness, we're able to extend forgiveness.

Mm-hmm. And again, it may take time, that may not be a 1, 2, 3 immediate thing, but we know that we can bend that forgiveness down into other relat. With people, and so we're willing to live as free people. We're not in bondage anymore. We're not in prison. We're not alone. Mm-hmm. We're able to move into relationships and, and have a, I think a beauty and a flourishing in those relationships that we can't have apart from Christ.

Mm-hmm. I do think it takes time, maybe even a lifetime. Mm-hmm. Um, Paul and I have been married, what, 31 and a half years now, and it's really only been, I feel like the last maybe five years mm-hmm. That we have done this well, that we have really been able to receive. Um, I. A, you know, him coming to me and talking to me about my sin or me confronting him about his sin.

Mm-hmm. In a way that is so beautiful and gentle and restorative. But I would credit that to the fact that it is taking just a long time for us to be rooted in, grounded in the mercy and grace that has been given to us. So what did it look like early in marriage? A lot of defensiveness. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, a lot of defensiveness.

I think that that's kind of our natural posturing is if you confront me, well I will say fear. Whether it was my defensiveness because you're coming to me, or you know, you being defensive because I'm coming to you, or just fear that I don't wanna confront you. Kind of going back to what you were saying.

Yeah. But, um, I just think there was a lack of humility and a lot of defensiveness because I think naturally we have an internal defense attorney. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And he rears his ugly head really quickly. Mm-hmm. The minute that we think somebody has sniffed out Yeah. What's even true about us.

Right. And I mean, I'm thinking, you know, along the way we're thinking we're committed godly Christians. Mm-hmm. And yet, I mean, it was, I feel like it was a long time before I could receive, um, From him. Hey honey, this is really, this has really hurt me. I think that you really sinn against me and to be able to walk in that and not be completely undone.

And I think part of even went to wait. I'm not perfect. Right? Wait, I, I thought I was the perfect wife. I thought I was the perfect mom. What just happened here? You, I'm just exposed and it's like, hmm, you've been exposed. Yeah. You know, and uh, and it's just so uncomfortable. But I just think the more I've walked with the Lord and the more I've just been like, really, if Paul comes, he's already, he's already telling me what I should already.

And just like every sin I confess to the Lord is already forgiven, right? Paul has commanded to forgive me mm-hmm. To not hold my sin against me, to not pay me back for the wrong that I've done to him. And so really every sin I ask forgiveness for him from is, Is a sin that's already been forgiven. Mm-hmm.

You know, in a heart matter. Yeah. And so, um, I think just when we can get to that point in a relationship where we are so secure, I, I just love the words mercy and grace, because grace is getting what you didn't deserve. And mercy is not getting what you do deserve. Right. And God's love, his mercy and his grace.

Um, I think about it is just, it's, it's so benevolent. He is so benevolent. And if we understand that, then how we are going to approach relationships are going to look so different. And that's why when you say this isn't a formula, we, you could, you could memorize. These Rs and the one interlude that's not an R, um, but that wouldn't give you, um, the power of the Holy Spirit.

It wouldn't, it wouldn't, your heart wouldn't necessarily be captured by the promises that God gives. And, you know, that's all the work of the Holy Spirit to really push all of that down into a place where we really believe it and we're overwhelmed. Biden, I think about the, the story in Luke seven, where the sinful woman comes to anoint Jesus.

And the Pharisees are incensed about it. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think it's a great example. You've got the Pharisees who are self-righteous, who you know, don't appreciate forgiveness. They don't understand this grace in mercy. And some of us can be like Pharisees. Mm-hmm. And sometimes we can, you know, we can kind of go between the, the sinful woman and the Pharisee back and forth depending on the relationship or depending on where we are, you know, in that moment.

But then you've got this woman who knows. Who knows how sinful she is and falls at the feet of Jesus weeping and anointed. And you know, what does Jesus say? He says to the one who has been forgiven much, they love much. Mm-hmm. And I think one of the, the real challenges for us is to really understand what the Pharisees miss.

That even if your life doesn't look like that sinful woman mm-hmm. That you are every bit of sinful. Right. Because of God's holiness. Yeah. And so I think, you know, the more we can go to that day of salvation and realize. God, this is a, this was a rescue mission. You came after me when I was your enemy and you forgave me.

And just what you said, that double amputation, that not only did he for, did he release me from the consequence and punishment, but he gave me his record. I think about a presidential pardon, you know, is, is a pardon Where a somebody gets, um, Uh, uh, they don't have to fill out their, uh, term or whatever the, the consequence is, but the record is not taken away.

Mm-hmm. And so we've got this pardon upon, pardon upon pardon? Like this, pardon, is like amazing what we've been given. And I just think so much of where we need to land if we can, and kind of this idea of preaching the gospel to ourselves is just to remember the mercy and the grace of God in our lives and.

The forgiveness that we've been given in Christ. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I was thinking, Brenda, that I wanted to make this practical, cuz we've talked just about a lot of different ideas and we're moving into, um, slowing down the idea of forgiveness. But just to make it practical today, one of the things that has helped me, or that I've, I've been convicted of is that I don't receive the, the forgiveness of the Lord.

Easily, often, because I wanna rush through the process of confessing. Mm-hmm. And well, what that looks like for me is like, God, please forgive me and you know that I'm gonna do a much better job next time and I'm gonna have patience and I'm gonna say sweet thing. You know, like, I, like, I'm already planning what I'm.

Supposed to be doing how I should respond next time planning the obedience instead of sitting for some time in the confession to the Lord and being really real with him on what my son does in my own heart, how it offends him, and that by avoiding that I avoid. The experience of forgiveness. Hmm. And so I just think practically, maybe it's just, um, wise, um, as you, as you, as we get people thinking about forgiveness to, to just try to take some time to focus in your prayer time on what the receiving, the forgiveness of the Lord really looks like.

And believe it or not, I'm Presbyterian. I'm gonna say it, what it feels like, what, how we experience it, how we're drawn into closer fellowship with him as we really. Sees all and knows all of who we are and he loves us, and so I just, I just hope that that makes it feel a little bit practical. Yeah. I think that's so good.

I think another practical aspect is that I can trust God. Mm-hmm. I mean, if God came after me when I was his enemy and saved me and you know, has given me this, all of this grace and all of this mercy, now I'm his child. Mm-hmm. How much more can I trust him in my own? To make, you know, to, to use all things for good or when I'm sinned against.

And um, and I think particularly this idea of when we're sinned against that we can trust him. We can trust his sovereignty, we can trust, he's in control, we can trust, he's good, we can trust he's wise. And if I trust that, then I do not have to seek revenge. Mm-hmm. At all. I can trust that he's just, and he is gonna settle all of his accounts.

Um, you know, and I think that's just a really, I know for me that is such a great practical application to re. I can trust God. I am his daughter. He loves me. Grace and mercy has been poured out on me in forgiveness. And because I'm in union with Christ, that forgiveness means that I have his protection, I have his provision, he's got my back.

Um, and I just think that really helps me to posture myself where it's not about me needing to get even with you. It's about me saying God will take care of. Uh, and, and God will take care of me. Mm-hmm. So today we've really been focusing on receiving the pardon that we have in Christ, the grace and mercy that we have in him.

And next time ne uh, next episode, we'll be talking about remembering. We're gonna try to remember what, what Christ has done for us. We're gonna remember something different than we tend to remember when we've been hurt. Yeah, that's gonna be really important. So I just wanna do just a, a quick recap here.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So today we've been talking about receive, receive, receive, receive. We just want people to remember the first thing is we have to receive this forgiveness first because our greatest need as sinner is the forgiveness of God. And then we have to receive this because, Is really wanting us to be a conduit of his mercy and grace, and we're not gonna give away what we don't have.

And because we're constantly failing other people and in need of forgiveness and because other people are, you know, often failing us and sin against us, we need to extend forgiveness or we need to, you know, and we need to know how to walk through those situations that we really have to remember. To receive God's forgiveness.

And so I just wanna say, if there's somebody listening who's never done that mm-hmm. Um, we would love for you to reach out to us if you're, if you've listened and you're like, I don't really know what it looks like to receive God's forgiveness, um, I, I don't know that I'm right with God. Mm-hmm. I don't know that I'm at peace with him.

I don't know that he's become my father. Um, then we would love for you just to reach out to us and let us have a conversation with you because I think out of all the. The, the podcast in this episode, this one is the most important, um, because we can't move forward really into this topic well. Um, and in a way that pleases God and really does bring peace without having first received, um, the forgiveness of God.