Season 1 Episode 4

Hi, I'm Alex. And I'm Brenda. Welcome to Conversational Counseling where counseling and discipleship meet. It is a normal part of the Christian life for the Holy Spirit to show us the beauty of the character of God and that we don't measure up and to bring us to a place where we want to turn away from that kids love is inexhaustible.

I'm gonna stand with you and I'm gonna give you the grace and I'm gonna give you the power, and I'm gonna let you know that I love you,

Brenda. We are back with these three things. Yeah, I can't wait to talk about these three things. Well, I think it's funny that these three things we're gonna talk about today are titled. Full waltz because if you've ever seen me dance, you know that I shouldn't be instructing anybody in how to dance. Oh, that's great.

Well, I think one of the things we're gonna learn from this lesson is this waltz. Um, is a gospel waltz because we have a father who does know how to do this beautiful dance mm-hmm. Of, um, grace dancing. If I can use those terms and we're gonna see that we're more like the little child who's standing on his feet mm-hmm.

Standing on daddy's toes. That's right. And stepping on his toes as we go. So, um, thankfully so, yeah. Yeah. So the Gospel Walz, uh, really comes from the book, the Gospel-Centered Life, and we've used, we've both used this book a lot. Yeah. And it's a great resource, easy to use, and the steps of the gospel watts are confessed.

Believe and love. So we're gonna break that down today. Yeah. So, you know, in an earlier podcast we talked about, um, justification, sanctification and glorification. And we, we sort of can say that we have been saved, we are being saved. We will be saved. Mm-hmm. And sort of how we see these. Three processes, if you will, is one big process.

So we know we had said in justification that we've been saved from the penalty of sin and you know, from the penalty of sin and the uh, and hell, right? Mm-hmm. So, um, that's great news. That's why it's the good news. It's a rescue. And then we said in glorification is where the presence of sin is removed and this is where we are gonna be with Jesus.

Mm-hmm. And there will be no tears and no more crying in, uh, our sin and. Suffering will be gone. But in the meantime, Alex, we have our whole life that we're in this in between period called sanctification. And uh, what we really wanna talk about today is what does it look like to be sanctified? And a big, big part of sanctification is something called.

Repentance. Repentance. Yeah. Repentance. Yeah. And I think a lot of times we wanna shy away, cuz it seems like a bad word. It's a beautiful word. Mm-hmm It's a gospel word. Mm-hmm. Repentance. Mm-hmm. And we're gonna use repentance cuz people define it a little differently. But we're gonna define repentance as a turning away from our sin and a turning toward God.

Mm-hmm. And so, Just, let's talk about that in a little bit of why people don't want to repent or how, what substitutes we use for repentance. Um, yeah, before we talk about that, I just wanna say, like, personally, I, and I'm, I don't think I'm alone in this, I, you get this sense that when you come to Christ that, and you recognize that you're a sinner.

Yeah. And that he's forgiven you for your sins, that then you're going to walk out into the Christian life and experience a growing holiness. Yeah, a growing, um, you know, perfection in my case. Like I just Yeah. Be perfect. Okay. Well, you know, yeah, I wanna do that. I wanna be perfect. I've always wanted to be perfect.

And so do you think that coming into the Christian life is you just going from one degree of glory to another in your, per your own perfection and it's a really rude awakening. To recognize that what happens as we grow in our Christian life, as we know the word more as we're with other believers as we're interacting with the Holy Spirit, is we see ourselves as even more sinful than we thought we were.

Yeah. At our time of conversion. Yeah. And our sense of our own sin gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and that was particularly discouraging to me. I started to realize that it wasn't just my behavioral sin, it. Thinking. It wasn't just my thinking, it was my attitudes and my desires. There were layers upon layers of sinfulness in me.

Yeah. And there still are. Yeah. Yeah. And so I remember the day that the diagram, um, that this book shows, um, was presented to me because it was the biggest relief because it showed that with a growing sense of our sinfulness, we always, we also have a growing sense of the character of. And as that, those two things grow, what happens is the cross actually gets bigger to us.

That's right. Our sense of who Jesus is and what he did for us grows along with the sense of our own sinfulness and the, and the holiness and the character of God. And that that's a good thing. Yeah. It's not a bad thing. And that really the point of my conversion is actually the place where the cross was the smallest.

That's. Right. And it felt so big it did at that moment. Mm-hmm. Because it was big. Mm-hmm. Because it was the rescue, right. Um, that God rescued us, but then we just begin to see more and more that there's a continual rescue from the power of sin to control us and to ruin our lives and to ruin the lives of those around us.

Mm-hmm. Um, so, but I think what that does for us, to go back to what you asked me is it makes us not afraid of this subject of repentance. Yeah. Because, It makes us realize that it is a normal part of the Christian life. Yeah. For the Holy Spirit to reveal our hearts to us. Yeah. And show us the beauty of the character of God, the holiness and the goodness, and the wisdom of God, and that we don't measure up and to bring us to a place where we.

Want to turn away from that. Yeah. Where we want to move towards the Lord and that that should be the rhythm Yes. Of our Christian lives. I love that word rhythm. Mm-hmm. Repentance should be so, repentance is confess. Believe and love. Mm-hmm. And we're gonna break that down, but I love that. That should be the rhythm.

Tim Keller has a really good article called All of Life is Repentance. Mm-hmm. And that's basically what he's saying, that this is the rhythm. We don't just start off repenting initially. So you know, we can, um, trust in Christ and come to salvation. But it's an ongoing, and to your point, what happens a lot of times is some of those big outward sins.

Mm-hmm. Kind of get those things that are very obvious to us. Get cleared up. But then what begins to happen is the place that God really wants to work. Mm. On the heart. Mm-hmm. That becomes much more revealing over time. Mm-hmm. Um, and we become much more sensitive, you know, because of the Holy Spirit's work and because there's a growing desire that he's giving us to please the Lord and to honor him and to glorify him.

And then as Oswald Chambers put another layer on it for me, when he said this quote, we have to repent of our own white. Ah, or the way Tim Keller talks about it is a repenting of our own self-righteousness. Yes. And so here's another layer that I've begun to explore of Yeah. Um, that, uh, the, the faith and the trust that I put in my own doing Yeah.

And that I have to repent of that, that it's really only Christ work. So there are layers and layers of repentance that we're doing all the time. Yeah. And it, it just makes me, and I hope everyone take a sigh of relief of like, it's not. Um, there's something wrong with my Christianity, or even wrong with my sanctification, is actually very right to be in a rhythm of repentance.

Yep. I love that rhythm of repentance. There we go, tweetable. Mm-hmm. Like that? Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, let's talk about the opposite here though. You know, if, if repentance is confessing, believing and loving, then let's talk about like what happens. How do we try to get around repentance? What does that look like?

And one of the, the things I really think of of is that we, we hide, we can go back to the genesis mm-hmm. Three in the fall. And we really see right there what our natural fleshly tendencies going to be when we sin. Mm-hmm. And I think one of the first things is we wanna hide. We hide and we do that a lot of.

Yeah. We do that by, um, blaming someone else. Mm-hmm. Um, that's really pointing. We'll go back to that. Mm-hmm. We do that by minimizing our own sins. Mm-hmm. We do that by, you know, um, pretending mm-hmm. That it, you know, minimizing is pretending it's not a big of a deal. Mm-hmm. We do that by covering up, making excuses.

Mm-hmm. Justifying ourselves all those ways or ways that we hide. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, um, you. If I'm gonna give the three little babies from Genesis three, but if we think about like hiding and covering and then, um, maybe blame shifting. I think you do hiding and pointing. Mm-hmm. Um, but really if we can sort of look at that and realize most of us are really prone to all three of those.

Mm-hmm. Um, at some point, at some level. So we're gonna hide. And I just think, just sort of this idea of like, because shame enters in, right. And now rather than moving toward. I wanna move away from God, right? I wanna ignore that he's there. I wanna say, well, maybe the consequences aren't gonna be that bad.

Maybe I can decide what good and evil is and define it for myself. You know, all of sort of these garden tactics, if you will. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, you know, if I can't hide. Then I have to start covering. Mm-hmm. And a lot of times, covering is where self-righteousness comes in. Right? Because now I'm gonna have to look good, be good.

The good's gotta outweigh the bad. Mm-hmm. How can I make myself look good before God look good before other people? And, um, rather than just admitting mm-hmm Hey, I've messed up. I've gotta start justifying, I gotta start defending. Mm-hmm. These are all ways that we cover. Mm-hmm. And then the blame shifting, of course, is.

Self-evident. Pointing at someone else. Yeah. Just, um, excusing our sin because of what others around us do. Or just outright blaming them. Yeah. Yeah. But it was their fault. Of course. This, you know, they say everything you ever needed to know, you learned in kindergarten. I just remember the whole thing. If you've got one finger pointing at someone else, you've got three fingers pointing back at you.

Right. But there is something to be said that, you know, if we find ourselves in a habit of blame shifting mm-hmm. Um, then we need, need to. Take account. The taking the lock out of our own eye first is what the scripture calls us to do. Mm-hmm. Before we, you know, start, um, getting down into somebody else's little bitty speck in their eye.

But I think shame, I, I just wanna talk about shame for a minute. Alex and I, I think, you know, we'll probably eventually do a whole series or a whole podcast on shame. It's just such an important part. But, um, you know, do you have any thoughts on shame when it comes to this process of repentance, turning from our sin and turning to God?

Anything else that we haven't said that you think would be important? Well, first, uh, I just wanna acknowledge that shame is probably the most powerful human emotion. Mm-hmm. And so we act in ways out of our shame that sometimes surprises. Even us. Mm-hmm. Because we will do whatever it takes to push away and to get away from the feeling of shame.

Mm-hmm. And so that's why we result to these tactics. Yeah. But what I think is so interesting is when we talk about this rhythm, these really are the antidote for shame. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, when we do sin, a lot of times what the enemy tells us is not that I did something bad, but I am bad.

Right? So therefore I am not, God wouldn't want anything to do with me cuz I, cuz I'm generally speaking, I have just lost complete favor. I am. You know, instead of saying like, I've done something wrong. Mm-hmm. And so now I need to confess that. Um, but you're right. The antidote to shame is exactly what we're gonna talk about.

So we've got confess, believe in love. Let's just jump into confession. And first of all, what, what is a biblical confession? Well, just thinking about what you're saying about hiding and covering and pointing, we go back to the idea that confessing is just the opposite of all those, and it's just agreeing with God.

Agree. Let's just call. What we've done, what God calls it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of times we don't wanna agree with God because we think if we, you know, we think if we do all these other things that we can gain his favor or at least mm-hmm. Avoid his discipline. Right. But I think about, you know, we're parents.

Mm-hmm. And a lot of our listeners are probably parents. And when our children disobey us, they don't lose. Our love, they don't lose our favor. They don't, we don't cast them out of our family. And guess what? A lot of times there are consequences. Mm-hmm. There is some discipline coming, but it's corrected.

Mm-hmm. And it's because we love them. Mm-hmm. And so I think for us, we have to realize that first step. But confession, I love Paul Tripp has a wonderful talk called Confession is grace. Mm-hmm. And how even the ability to confess Alex as a work of the Holy Spirit. Mm-hmm. Right. Like we, when we are walking out our Christian life, it is so important.

Um, and sort of we, we've touched on this a little bit before, not that we ask the Holy Spirit to do these, you know, um, interrogations on us, cuz he's not, that he's not that way. The Bible says that it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance. Right? And so in his kindness, he draws us to make a confession.

Just agree with me. Just turn mm-hmm. Just turn back to me. Mm-hmm. God is. Right. You know, God is, God is standing forward, arms wide open, ready to receive us. We have just got to turn and run toward him, and that's what confession does. I think confession just unleashes the grace of God too, because it takes humility.

Mm-hmm. We will never confess in our pride. Mm-hmm. And God loves. Humility. In fact, he says he gives grace, supernatural help from heaven to those who are humble, but resist the proud. Mm-hmm. That proud person's gonna continue to get a spanking. Mm-hmm. But the humble person is who God is waiting, um, to receive and to forgive and to restore.

You know, it was really hard for me to understand this and put this into, It's a simple concept. Yeah. But what was so hard for me is like I would move in my mind, and even in my prayer of repentance, I'm putting my air quotes up to God was like a Lord, I'm not gonna do that again, and I'm going to make sure that I don't gossip because I'm going to do these three things to hold myself accountable and I move to the plan.

Stop the sin before I would even name it before the Lord. And I kind of think I had this attitude of like, Lord, why do I have to tell you what I did when you already know what I did? Mm-hmm. And so it really goes back to what you're saying about humility. Like the naming of it was for me. And the naming of it was not for me to have my nose rubbed in it.

No. Like we do with a puppy, right? Like the naming of it was for me to sit before the Lord and recognize that I am fully loved and fully accepted even when I name before him. Yes. What we both know I just did. Yes. And Alex, that's a great segway to believe. Mm-hmm. Because what you just really demonstrated was what it looks like to believe and not to go straight to love or what some people would say like the spiritual battle of fighting.

Mm-hmm. Right. The obedience mm-hmm. Uh, aspect of it. Right. A would jump to the plan and the obedience. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, What is it that we need to believe? You know, we, we confess our sin to the Lord, and we're saying that repentance is a waltz of three steps that we're gonna confess, we're gonna believe, and then we're gonna move out in love.

Mm-hmm. Or obey. Mm-hmm. We might say. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, and, and you made a great point, you said, I started off, you know, kind of confessing my sin and then I told God how it would obey. Mm-hmm. But never really stopped. On the believe part of that, which is the grace part of it, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because if not, it's just Alex doing Alex.

Right? Okay. So how do we, how do we really move through the believe or what does it mean to say that we're going to confess, then we're gonna believe, and then we're gonna act in love. Yeah. For me, it's reminding myself of who God is and what he's done. Yeah. So I have to, to be at a place where I remember.

The character of God, the goodness of God, the gentleness of God, the wisdom of God, all these things about who he is, and that in that wisdom he has, he has called me to live a certain way and then to think about what he's done for me. Like that's what you're saying about reading myself in the grace and not my own self effort.

Mm-hmm. So I'm reme remembering what Christ has done on my behalf, but I'm also remembering what Christ has purchased on my. Hmm, that he has purchased the promises of God for me. He has purchased the character of God towards me. Yes, in all goodness. And so I'm remembering that. So really what I'm saying is I'm remembering the gospel.

I'm choosing to believe the gospel, the big gospel, the right, the entirety of the gospel. And this is happening really fast. Right. I'm not writing a dissertation on this, but I'm choosing to believe that such that I am believing in that moment when I want to be harsh with the person sitting across from me because they've hurt my feelings.

I am believing that what God, that who God says he is, is true. That he's a God of justice. If there needs to be justice, he's gonna take care of it. Mm-hmm. He's the God of love. He's the God of mercy, and he's the God of grace. And that I'm believing in that moment that gentle. And kindness. Mm-hmm. That, that response is what, um, what God is calling me to, and I'm trusting him to take care of the rest.

Mm-hmm. I'm really just trusting. I'm gonna take a step of faith and, and humble myself and become gentle with the person across from me because I'm believing that God's ways. Good for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's really, really good. And um, I, I really like this, this idea of even when we're talking that we're.

Coming from the standpoint that, um, our, our obedience is not for acceptance, but it's from our acceptance from mm-hmm. You know, I think that's really, really important for us to recognize because if not, we really will jump over the believe mm-hmm. And go straight to the love, which is the obedience piece.

And that's me going from I did something wrong. I need to make a plan to get it right. Yeah. Instead of walking through. A repentance rhythm where I am reminding myself of who God is and what he's done for me, the grace and mercy that's here for me. And then to move out of that, to love God and love others.

Yeah. And even I think in that belief part is really recognizing that there's the trans, it's his to transform me, like it's his power that's gonna transform me. So I'm crying out to him. I'm being honest about my sin, struggle with. I'm even confessing my doubt and my unbelief in the struggle. Mm-hmm. You know, and sort of this, this idea of coming to the Lord, like the belief part to me is sort of that wrestling down my heart part.

Mm-hmm. And, and if. And I just, I think that if we, yeah, if we, if we miss this part, we really are going to end up being good Pharisees. Mm-hmm. Instead of biblical Christians mm-hmm. Who are modeling the love and power of God in our lives. Um, I think this is a great homework assignment, right? Mm-hmm. That we can take these categories of confess.

Believe and, um, love. Mm-hmm. And maybe we'll talk about that a little bit at the end. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll give an example. Yeah. And I'll just mention a resource because this belief part, I think it's tricky to understand and I definitely think you're right. It's where we most easily revert back to Yes.

Our own self-righteousness. And so, um, John Piper has a sermon series called Battling Unbelief. And the whole series is good one because he lays out this whole argument of that sin is rooted in unbelief and then he links it to specific sins. Anger can't, it's been a while, but anger, lust, um, anxiety. So battling the sin of anxiety.

Bangla battling the sin of anger and he spec goes into these struggles specifically and shows how they are linked to unbelief. Very, very helpful for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So let's move on to this aspect of love. Um, I heard heard somebody once say, you know, a lot of people think that we're saved by grace, but sanctified by, um, our sweat.

Mm-hmm. And so, you know, again, we, we know that there is a place. I'm gonna say too sweat, if you will. Mm-hmm. Like there's a place of work. Mm-hmm. In our sanctification, we do have a responsibility. Mm-hmm. But even our work is motivated out of grace is the result of grace. Like Jesus' death on the cross.

Right. Is what has given us the power to overcome sin. Not us, not our love for God, his love for us. So, uh, I love this little, I think it's a hymn or poem that Tim Keller quotes all the time, uh, lay your deadly Doing Down, down at Jesus' feet. Stand in him and him alone gloriously complete. And I think like, I wanna pause right there for a second because if we don't pause, At standing in him gloriously complete.

We move right back into our deadly doing. Mm-hmm. But if we can pause and gloriously complete Yeah. That becomes a motivation to move out in love. Yeah. Yeah. And I think as we're thinking about this, Because to take that time on the believe section can sort of feel out we're not doing anything right. And I think that's the whole point is that, let's see what God has done for us, at least, Fitzpatrick, um, talks a lot about what everybody used to wear, the bracelets.

Um, what would Jesus, what would Jesus do? And she sort of changed that to what did Jesus do. Yes. And so that's sort of the point here that we need to think about what did Jesus do? That is the believe part. Mm-hmm. And then what would Jesus. Is the love. Mm-hmm. And the action, the command oriented part of this.

Mm-hmm. And so we know the two greatest commands in the Bible are to love God and to love our neighbor. Mm-hmm. And so there is some action. Mm-hmm. There's a response to the gospel, right. That we have and that is that now based on our beliefs, And based on, you know, God wrestling down our hearts, and maybe we don't even feel like it, but by faith mm-hmm.

We step out and say, I'm going to do what God requires of me because I've wrestled with this trustworthiness. I've wrestled with the fact that I'm approved, and by the way, I know that repeated repentance is progress. So when I fail again, I'll just come right back around. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Like his love is inexhaustible and he doesn't grow impatient and just say, oh, I'm done with you, Brenda Payne.

Mm-hmm. He. No, I'm never done with you. Like I am committed to you to the end. And so if we have to wrestle this giant down, you know, if you, if you have to wrestle this down, Brenda, for the rest of your life, like I'm gonna be here. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna stand with you and I'm gonna give you the grace and I'm gonna give you the power, and I'm gonna let you know that I love you.

Mm-hmm. And in that process, I mean, what we see is that, It's such a faith process that we do begin to actually make some progress in our Christian walk. Yeah, I think you hit on something really important. You said we don't, we don't rest on our feelings to move forward in love. Mm, and, and so it's not repent, believe, get the feels, and now I feel ready to love you.

Right? That really walking out in faith is usually against our feelings, right? We move out in love to God and to others when we don't necessarily feel like it many times by his grace, the feelings follow right? But we do have to move out. That the act of faith, which is what love is. Yeah. The acting out of faith, um, is often without the feel goods part of it.

Yeah. I think that's hard for us, Alex. It's very hard because we really wanna feel good. We wanna feel good and, and I think if it doesn't feel good, then we question, right? Is it right Uhhuh? Is it really good Uhhuh? If it doesn't feel good to do this, is it really good? Mm-hmm. And. You know, my husband is fond of saying, you know, you can't trust your feelings.

And there are times that we need to listen to our feelings. I'm not saying that our feelings aren't important, but to trust our feelings over what God has clearly revealed to us mm-hmm. Is we're gonna have to bow to what God says. Mm-hmm. Um, because a lot of times, you know, like you said, it may just be that our feelings need a chance to catch up and.

Um, and faith? Yeah, just that, that faith is stepping out even when I can't see, and even when I can't feel, but knowing that this is what God is requiring or this is what God is asking. And by the way, all the obedience that God requires or ask of us is only and always for our good. Mm-hmm. God's never asked me to do anything, Alex, that wasn't ultimately for my good.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, the fences are to, are protection. Um, you know, the the things that he's asking me to do, they're, they are that by definition love. Mm-hmm. It is loving for me to be this way toward you. It is unloving to be this way toward you and say, what God is asking me to do is to, to grow in love mm-hmm.

As I obey those commands. Mm-hmm. That's good. Yeah. So it's a rhythm and it's a hard rhythm. Um, it's a hard rhythm to get into, repent, believe, love, and it's a rhythm that we resist. Mm-hmm. I was thinking when you were, um, mentioning the ways that we resist, uh, confession or repentance. W there are ways that I know that I am not moving out in love, um, out of.

What God has done for me, but out of what I have to do mm-hmm. The, the what did Jesus do versus what would Jesus do. Mm-hmm. And usually my own irritation, uh, impatience resentfulness mm-hmm. Is like a. Big red, blinking light on the dashboard of I have moved out into, I have to do this versus an overflow of what Christ has done for me.

When I feel that low level resentment Yeah. Towards others, and I'm kind of making myself, um, be patient. Yeah. Okay. Don't really do that. Yeah. Making myself be kind. But when I, when I'm moving in ob. Out of that, out of a sense of what I have to do, then I am going to usually feel tired, bitter, angry, resentful very quickly.

And so that's a good indicator to me of like, I need to back up. Mm-hmm. And ask myself, what is this flowing out of? Mm-hmm. What am I, what am I really trying to earn or gain? Yeah. From this, yeah. Obedience. Yeah. And I think this is where biblical counseling is really. Than a lot of what the world has to offer, right?

Mm-hmm. Because a lot of what is in the world is maybe a recognition of wrong, but then you gotta have your fight plan. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's on you. Right. You gotta, you know, you gotta change behavior therapy. You gotta, let's, okay, this is the wrong behavior, so now let's give you the right behavior, cognitive behavior therapy.

This is the wrong thinking. Now let's give you something good or something pleasant, or what you determine is right to think about. And I think that what we can really see is that we just end up and if, if, if this is the Christianity that we move people toward, we just end up with more Pharisees. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. A lot of behaviorism. Mm-hmm. A lot of legalism. Um, if we are not coming back to that, why. That, why are we gonna step out and love God and love our neighbor? Mm-hmm. Which is really the cross and what God has done for us, and Christ is central to that. Mm-hmm. So we started off the podcast talking about dancing and that I shouldn't be instructing anyone and dancing.

Mm-hmm. And you reminded us that we're dancing on our father's toes, but I just wanna remind us that whenever we're learning a new dance, it doesn't look pretty all the time. Mm-hmm. It's not clean, it's messy. It's awkward and there is a sense that we have to practice. You mentioned practice earlier.

Mm-hmm. And that we have to practice this rhythm of repent, believe in love. Mm-hmm. And it will probably take us until he takes us. That's right. And we need, you know, I think about, um, for Christmas, one year Paul gave me, um, dance lessons to a downtown. Dance studio and just how sometimes we need some, an instructor, and of course we always have the Holy Spirit and the word of God that's, um, instructing us from his word and also instructing our hearts.

But this is, again, the value of having one another. Mm-hmm. So some of these concepts may be hard, but you know, to pick up the gospel centered life mm-hmm. With another person, with a group of friends. Maybe walk through it. Another resource that I think is really good is Elise Fitzpatrick's book, because he loves Me mm-hmm.

Is a beautiful book. He, she really, um, expounds on this whole idea of what Jesus has. Or us and why it matters. Um, and so those are, those are just some resources that might be helpful for women to, particularly, I think you and I are really big advocates of getting with someone or at least doing the work and then, you know, get together and talk about it and, um, and how it's actually applying to where you are today.

Not that this is just information that you're taking in. But this is actually something that can change your life. Like how are you applying it today where you are? Yeah. I'm thinking how challenging it's been for us just to sit here in front of this microphone, put these things into words that we, we've known for a long time, we've learned for a long time.

We've even taught and, and still I find myself trying to get the right language and then remind myself of like pushing it down into my own heart so it becomes part of my practice. And that the best way to do that is to be talking it. Someone in the particular Yeah. Of my own struggle. Okay. So you want me to share one illustration Yes.

From this morning? Sure. This was my conversation with myself in the shower this morning. So, um, I was getting pretty nervous about doing another podcast and the series and the doubt and fear. Just begin to kind of overwhelm my heart. Like, what, what am I doing? Why do I think that I should even be doing this?

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the narrative that runs through Alex is so much smarter than me. She says things so much better than me now. Fear is gripping my heart. Mm-hmm. Now, even some. Shame is coming in because I'm comparing and I'm not as good anymore. Mm-hmm. And, um, and then I'm moving to, you know, fear of man, what are other people gonna think about me?

They're gonna like her more than me. They're gonna think she's smarter than me. And then other people are just really gonna realize that I'm just not really, I don't really know what I'm. You know what I think I know. And you know, all of those things that are bombarding. And so a a behavioristic way of doing that would've been sort of to have been like, no, I can do this.

I am good. You are, I'm kind, you are smart and you are important. That's right. And really kind of bring it all back to, you know, always do this thing with my hands where I'm like, okay, it's all about me. Let's bring it in back to me. But really that's what that kind of, um, Going to the Lord, like, Lord, I'm fearful, but I'll be brave.

Lord. I, I feel embarrassed, but I'll be great so I don't have to be embarrassed. Like it's all so self-focused. Right. And completely misses the gospel and completely is not even that useful. Cuz at the end of the day, I know I'm not that brave. I'm actually not. I'm still not, I mean, I haven't fixed a thing.

Right. You know? Um, I've sort of put a, um, like. A mask on, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like a costume on, and now I'm gonna show up in costume mm-hmm. This morning. Mm-hmm. And so in the in, you know, I just had to really go back to, Lord, what is true about your love for me? And what is true about how you can transform my heart?

Because you're not gonna change the situation and we're gonna go do a podcast today. Right. You know? And so I really just begin to just go back like, Lord, you love me, no matter if anybody likes this or not. Mm-hmm. And Lord, you have made me very particular. I'm not Alex. And if I am Alex, one of us is not needed in this podcast, right?

Like, we're both the same person. One of us is not needed. And at the end of this, this series, like if, if somebody likes me more and somebody doesn't like me more, oh well. Mm-hmm. Because you love me and your view, and your opinion and your love and your approval of me is not gonna change. And that's what my heart has to be anchored in.

Mm-hmm. And I also know, God, that you know, you, you have confirm. What you're calling us to do. I mean, believing God's calling. Mm-hmm. Believing the co. Like there's lots of things cuz we, you doubt in the moment, but you can look around before you get to a situation like this and realize there's been lots of confirmation.

So then kind of the love aspect of that was the obedience to love God and love my neighbor. And I just said, okay, so I'm either gonna trust you mm-hmm. And believe you've equipped me and called me to this task. Mm-hmm. Even though not everybody's gonna like it or love it, even though I look a lot different than Alex, even though I have, you know, butterflies in my stomach.

And the most loving thing I can do is to trust you and then love Alex. And this is sort of funny, I gotta say this. One of the ways I covered my kind of shame in this is I texted one, one of our friends texted me this morning and said she was praying. And I said, yeah, well my job is just to make sure that Alex looks good and I don't mess things up.

I mean, you know, but that was my way of covering. I'm gonna hide behind, I'm gonna hide. I'm, yeah, I'm serious. God. Yeah. I'm gonna hide. And so, you know, the Holy Spirit was just convicting me of these things gently being like, Brenda, Brenda, Brenda, Brenda. Mm-hmm. You're so, your identity's so in the wrong thing this morning.

Mm-hmm. Your, your hopes are so in the wrong things this morning. And so really I just had to say, am I gonna go love Alex and really help this? Podcast be the best. Not because I'm trying to hide, but because I'm trying to elevate Jesus. Mm-hmm. And so I want her to be the best version of her so Jesus gets the most glory.

Mm-hmm. And there are women listening that apparently desire, want, need. I don't know this podcast cuz God has led us to this place and will I love them enough to get over myself. Right. And quote unquote, my self-love of just focusing on me and my insecurity to be like, okay, God, if one person has helped, then that will be worth the whole ordeal.

Mm-hmm. And the whole growth. So again, you know, that happened in a, in a short span in my mind. Right. I mean, that wasn't like, you know, the whole, but, but that was an actual like, play out of this whole. Thing in my mind this morning, and honestly, Alex, I'm 55 years old, you would think I wouldn't be this insecure and you would think I would be over this.

Mm-hmm. But the cross got bigger for you today. The cross got bigger for me and the Lord met me just to show me how much he loves me. So, Anyway, love it or hate it. Here we are. You were gospel waltzing in the shower this morning. Yes, exactly. Oh, that's a lovely picture or not. Okay, we gotta wrap this thing up.

Alex. I think that was a great example and we are grateful that you not only showed up to do this, but that you've done it with such. Um, the other way that you've loved us all is you've encouraged us. You've come outside your own anxiety to encourage each one of us in here in. So the gospel waltz has blessed all of us.